Interview with Jim Haras of Deterge

Deterge means "to cleanse thoroughly" in modern dictionaries, though the word finds its origins in the Latin word detergere, which, more profoundly, means to "wipe away" or "to erase." It raises an uncomfortable question of purity and tabula rasa: can anything be immaculate after creation? At what point does a sick world's influence become noticeable? And how can you wash even the most seemingly insignificant marking away without losing a possible identifier?

I'm not arrogant enough to presume I know what goes on in Jim Haras' mind, though don't let that dissuade you in thinking I'm not arrogant. I do, however, tend to migrate towards lingual signifiers - words and their definitions help me sequester people, sensorial experiences, and ideas in different mental compartments. But a name in music is often at once fundamentally important as a bridge from artist to audience and fundamentally useless as any sort of defining attribute.

Except I can't help but liken harsh noise and even power electronics to the forces of erosion in nature. A waterfall. Wind. The friction from feet of sand compacted and piled on top of each other. These things make sounds too - monstrous ones at times. And they erase. And they cleanse. And they combine, touch, caress, and eventually destroy the vestiges of even our oldest gods. So yes, I think "Deterge" applies quite nicely to Jim's power electronics/noise project.

And that's all I got, sportsfans. Check out his label Fusty Cunt if you haven't and also be aware that he's got a Deterge LP coming out in the future. It's in Gestation right now. Haha. Just jokes, folks.

Jordan Reyes: You've been putting out noise-related music since 2009. Tell me about your beginning set up. What sorts of equipment did you use when you began? What sounds were you trying to create? Was this even a conscious decision or thought?

Jim Haras: I've actually been putting stuff out since mid 2000, but it was just never completely public. The early days was a lot of noisecore and (shitty) pedal noise. I started to get more into recording and distributing by the end of 2008. PTM basically became cut up and involved a lot of pedal work and acoustic sounds of junk. Around that time the set up consisted of contact mics, mics, a zoom 505, distortion and a degitech whammy wah. I more or less just used what was available to me at the time. All the old recordings were done on this karaoke machine that sounded like total garbage and I would record, then play the previous recording while recording in the second tape deck. I haven't used it in many years and now I kind of want to rediscover it. See if I can get anything new out of the device.

JR: How has your understanding of equipment and sound developed since then?

JH: I knew absolutely nothing of the equipment and a part of me wishes I could become willfully ignorant of it again. I used to make actual noise then, and now the stuff I make is extremely structured, even if loosely structured live. The actual sound development has ultimately become a style of my own I believe. There are certain aspects that, even in experimenting, I feel people would be able to recognize. It's all in HOW you do things rather than the actual sounds that are produced. I'm torn on whether I like that or not.

JR: How much of sonic growth and development is from self-guided exploration and how much is seeing another project and getting ideas from that?

JH: Mostly self-guided. I would rather not see someone and steal an idea to be honest. There may be little tricks that I pick up along the way because it's inevitable, but while seeing another noise/PE, I don't see the point. I do get ideas from other kinds of music though and try to work them into a power electronics format. I'm increasingly adding a hardstyle sound to certain tracks or passages as of 2010, but haven't fully realized what I wanted to do with it yet - that's why almost zero recordings have surfaced.

JR: Do you find that you listen to one particular style of music more than others?

JH: I listen to noise and PE way more than anything else. Every once in a while I'll listen to some black metal or electronic music. I'll always have a soft spot for late 90s-early 00s goregrind. I like a lot of stuff, I just don't listen as much.

JR: Are there any modern noise or power electronics artists from nowadays that you find to be of merit?

JH: Plenty from all different approaches. I don't really dwell on too many past favorites from the 80s because it just doesn't interest me. Aside from a lot of great 90s Harsh Noise like Skin Crime and Macronympha, I'd rather live in the now. Noise and PE are supposed to be experienced live so if I can physically be present, I'm more interested. That doesn't mean I'd shun going to see something like Whitehouse or Masonna, on the contrary; I just know I'll never be able to, so I keep it out of my mind. I get more excited over seeing things like Ahlzdeveloper and Action/Discipline than anything else. Friends that are excellent solo, but tearing apart shit in a collab setting is enticing. 

JR: I'll admit to being more familiar with Deterge as a live act than as a recorded project. For you, is there overlap? Do you find yourself summoning recorded material in a live setting or is it more improvisation?

JH: The live setting for Deterge is kind of weird. Due to my recording process often consisting of pieces to make a whole, I incorporate only parts of songs and try to meld them together in one continuous piece rather than play "songs." So when you hear a few recordings, then see me live you might be able to pick out parts from one tape and other parts from another immediately following or happening simultaneously. I feel in doing this I can still keep the set improvised because there are unrecorded/unpracticed passages intertwined also. I can appreciate people that make a great track, throw it on an iPod and do vocals over it because sonically it can be great. I like to play though. It's an experience not a cut-out. Every live set, to me, should be different than the last. I like the idea of me completely fucking something up and having to fix or accept it. It makes the experience more cerebral. I'd like others to be entertained by it, but ultimately a live performance is for me. 

JR: Is there an average amount of time it takes for you to start and finish a Deterge recording? What's your process?

JH: It can be as easy as hitting record or can take up to a year to get a track just right. All Deterge stuff is conceptual so when I recorded pieces they may remain dormant until there is a perfect combination of parts. I think I can attribute that to my background in cut-up Harsh Noise. If vocals are present they are almost always added after everything else is complete, unless the recording is live start to finish.

JR: Do you have a certain recording of yours that you're more proud of than others?

JH: I personally like "Roscosmos" on Collapsed Hole and "Always Around" on Danvers State. They are perfect examples of purely conceptual and purely personal, respectively. I'd like to get Always Around reissued on vinyl eventually. I am very excited about the (almost complete) LP though. It will stand out among all my other recordings I feel. 

JR: Your label Fusty Cunt does mostly cassette releases, something that's been a part of noise culture for most of its existence. Perhaps not the most sophisticated of questions but I'm always curious to hear what people say. What do you like about tapes?

JH: They are easier to make non-standard packages for because of their size. I don't do that as often as I'd like, but it's the best when I, or others, do. They also require you to take an active part in listening because you have to switch sides. You do with vinyl, of course, but noise has always sounded more at home on tape.

JR: I've always loved the slogan "No Coast, No Hope" that many Midwest PE and noise musicians have adopted. It's actually kind of catchy, if that's the right word. Do you think this idea or slogan is actually an accurate representation of Midwest noise musicians or perhaps the Midwest at large?

JH: In a way, yes. Mack (Koufar), Omar (machismo) and I basically came up with it without much thought, but it makes sense. We will never really get recognition like East and West Coasters do and we kind of get shit on. There just tends to be a dirtier, more hopeless vibe in the No Coast. Less positivity.

JR: Is having hope worthwhile?

JH: If you have something to look forward to, I say go for it. The worst that can happen is you will fail miserably. And at that point, whatever, it doesn't really matter. However, the act of having hope doesn't change the outcome of what you're hoping for in the first place, whether it good or bad. So, no, having hope is a waste of time.

JR: I know you have a pretty time-consuming job. I know you've toured in the past, but is it at all an option for you at this point?

JH: It's an option for sure. I work a lot, but I get paid vacation time so I can make it happen. There are talks of a Deterge/Machismo tour eventually as well as Deterge/Shredded Nerve. Also this summer I'd like to hit the west coast if I can. 

JR: What all is in the future for Jim Haras?

JH: Deterge LP on the way. Many more from Fusty including a single-sided Rectal Hygienics 12" and tapes from Terror Cell Unit, Ahlzagailzehguh, Frequensleep, etc. Some good shows including a Killed In Prison set at Scum Fest in Brooklyn this July. Me working and absolutely hating all customers that shop in my store.

JR: Anything else you'd like to say?

JH: Everyone needs to quit being a crybaby in the scene and learn to separate concept from person. Power Electronics shouldn't make you feel good about yourself or others. Nothing is sacred.

Interview with Mackenzie Chami of Koufar

Koufar played the best power electronics set I've ever seen on October 24, 2014, a show featuring heavy hitters Brighter Death Now, Deutsch Nepal, and Raison D'etre. At one level, it's because Mackenzie Chami simply has unrivaled vocal ability and intensity, but on another, it was his staunch commitment to a belief and a group of people. Mackenzie began his set with the anthem for the Lebanese Armed Forces, smiling and holding his heart before a Lebanese flag. As that ended, he turned with eyes like daggers before engulfing the room in the rolling crunch and feedback of power electronics. Mackenzie's lyrics are intense, personal, and political. But most of all, they're important to him and it shows. I'd never been moved like I was when he played. I'm rarely "moved" during a noise set - the only other time I can think of being "moved" was during a Pedestrian Deposit show.

But Mackenzie's set made me wonder what was I loyal to. Is there anything that I care about that much? I don't know. It's unsettling. And it's something I still find myself thinking about.

Though Koufar has many releases on tapes and CD-Rs, it recently put out its debut slab of wax on Jim Haras' Fusty Cunt label, Lebanon for Lebanese with four tracks of downright pummeling, permeating power electronics. Mackenzie's vocals are once again spotlighted on this release, a narrative arc spun around Mackenzie's meditations of Lebanon and what it means to him.

Jordan Reyes: Tell me a little bit about being a Maronite, an obvious centerpiece to your work as Koufar. Has the Maronite identity always been important in your life? Has it changed as you've gotten older?

Mackenzie Chami: There isn’t a whole lot to discuss about being a Maronite. We’re a small group of Catholics that originate from Lebanon. Most of us do not live there, however, due to the temperamental state that the country is consistently in. It wasn’t until I was 18 and finally had gotten the opportunity to visit Lebanon for the first time. It was then that I really got a firm understanding of myself, the culture, and what it “means” to be a Maronite. I use parentheses because I feel that ultimately its your own understanding of your cultural/ethnic background that will serve you, not the other way around. My beliefs have only been reaffirmed as I’ve gotten older. I will be proud forever.

Lebanon for Lebanese

JR: Your heritage is Caucasian and Lebanese, right? Do you find it difficult to reconcile your heritage? I too am mixed race and often have a difficult time "choosing" one piece of my heritage to identify with rather than another.

MK: You are correct. I am only half-Lebanese and can’t speak the language nor read it that well. I do not find it difficult because it is what I am comfortable with. As I mentioned before, during my first trip in 2006 was when it really made things clear for me. Never before had I walked into a room and realized that everyone in it looked liked me. I felt comfortable, and even though my grasp on the language is poor, people were courteous to me because they could see it in my face that I was one of them. This is how I have come to terms with who I am as man. Growing up, it was a constant barrage of people telling me what I was. I made this decision in 2006 and have stuck firmly with it.

JR: You've had a lot of different projects from Crown of Cerberus to Insurgent to Koufar. What distinguishes one project from another for you? How do you know when to create another moniker for your work?

MC: Well, I have trimmed things down a bit, but staying plenty active all the same. The things that have distinguished them have been thematics, as well as the approach sonically. The monikers have come and gone with time, my attempts, my failures, and my victories. However, I can say that I’m trying to focus more on Koufar, Terror Cell Unit, and Crown of Cerberus the most. Other projects might flare up here and there because I’m not afraid to experiment or try something new, but those three are the main ones, especially Koufar and TCU.

JR: Tell me a little bit about the upcoming LP on Fusty Cunt, Lebanon for Lebanese. How did you write and record the material? What specific themes and ideas does the record cover?

MC: The whole thing took place from 2010-2014. Its quite a long and boring story, but let's just say I had some excellent help from fellow artists that I respect, and couldn’t have completed it without their help.  Thematically it picks up where Guardians of the Cedars left off, with  “Damascus in Flames” and “Flares Over the Bay of Jounieh” remaining very much in the vein of “restoring Lebanon to its glory days, eliminating all of the Maronite enemies, civil war refrences, etc.” Meanwhile “Kiss the Hand You Cannot Bite (And Implore God to Break it)” is much, much more personal. The track is actually about me returning to this project and breathing life back into it. Me defiantly screaming “ I WILL NEVER BE WHITE. ARAB SMILE AND HATEFUL SPITE.” over and over at the end of the vocal section on the track. This leads us to the future of Koufar material which will be taking a slightly more twisted, personal route that collides with the various political agendas of Maronite led political groups both past and present. As the project continues forward, it is more along the lines of a modern day spiritual warrior. Taking what I have studied in the past and applying it with my own visions, beliefs, and personal struggles over the last 5 years.

JR: Why did you decide to release the new record as an LP rather than a CS or CD as you have in the past?

MC: It’s all thanks and praise to Jim Haras (Fusty Cunt). He made me the offer and I couldn’t have been more excited for the opportunity or more proud of the material on that record. I am eternally grateful for him to give me the opportunity. Plus, he couldn’t say no to the album artwork...

JR: Your set at the Brighter Death Now show may have been the best power electronics set I've ever seen. What goes into a Koufar set? How do you plan for one?

MC: Thank you very, very much for the kind words Jordan. I really appreciate it. What goes into a Koufar set? Quite a bit. Hours and hours of finding the right sounds, and then hours and hours of rehearsing the set. Hours and hours of figuring proper transitions, followed by hours and hours of frustration upon piecing it all together and attempting to make it cohesive as possible. Ever since I started writing songs for Terror Cell Unit, though I decided to bring that approach to Koufar. In all honesty, it's made me more comfortable with performing in general.

JR: I think one of the edges you have against other PE acts is that your message is clearly a political and ideological one you believe in, rather than the played out exploitation of nihilism so common to the scene. Do you think your ideology and its use in Koufar gives you strength? How?

MC: This is where things get fun. My message is political, ideological, and personal all at the same time. I do not personally believe in every last thing that I present or yell about, however. I like to stick to the “unsafe” side of power electronics when it comes to presentation because therein lies the true power in creating Power Electronics or Industrial music. Earlier in the history of the project, it was me telling a twisted, one-sided view of the Maronites, as well as my story of the history of Lebanon. It's not so much the ideology with the project that gives me strength but more so with being a proud Lebanese man. It is my pride that gives me strength within this project.

JR: You began your set with the Lebanese national anthem, I think. You had a big smile on your face as you looked at the Lebanese flag during that part but you went completely cold and serious when you turned to face the audience. Why the change in demeanor?

MC:The set actually began with the anthem for the Lebanese Armed Forces. The reason behind the smile, well, I was extremely excited to be back and performing for everyone that I’ve missed while living out in Oakland. The change was to subtly let everyone know that I was about to come at them and give them a Koufar performance unlike any other.

JR: Is the idea of ritual a big part of Koufar?

MC: Not ritual, but making sure to pay tribute, no matter how big or small, is of the utmost importance to Koufar.  

JR: What all is in the future for Mackenzie Chami and Koufar?

MC: Endlessly recording, performing, touring, and working with my label Crown Tapes. The moment I stop having fun with it I’ll be done with it.

JR: Anything else you'd like to say?

MC: Thank you Jordan for the interest, support, and patience with me answering you!
Allah Ma3k.