A Conversation with Haley Fohr of Circuit Des Yeux

In Plain Speech

In Plain Speech, the latest LP from Chicago's Circuit Des Yeux sees Haley Fohr at her most collaborative. While her last full-length, Overdue featured a hired string quartet, In Plain Speech has full-blown contributions from others. Indicative of this change is Fohr's caravan of roving artists she brings on tour, featuring Whitney Johnson of Matchesse, Adam Luksetich of Foul Tip, and many more. Haley, a road warrior of the finest pedigree, has been touring the United States in both solo and ensemble capacities for eight years. An already skilled live performer, Haley will be touring non stop until December or so both in Europe and the United States.

 In Plain Speech marks her first dalliance with Thrill Jockey Records. Though a self-confessed "control freak," Haley has been enjoying her new partnership, which has perks like music video budget with which she has created the striking "Do The Dishes" and "Fantasize the Scene" videos. Both videos, though intensely personal, bring to light universal themes, both for artists and non-artists. What does a life of travel mean for transient relationships? What does society expect from me because of how I was born? Will I ever be pretty enough to eat?

The tour dates appear after the interview. Supremely recommended. Haley puts on a crippling, emotional show. Do whatever you can to see her.

Jordan Reyes: When you play with a band is there an element of improvisation at all?

Haley Fohr: In general, it's pretty composed, but there are moments within the structure where you can do what you want. I like things to be elastic.

JR: Music theory allows for some of that too. Did you study that in school?

HF: I did study music theory and I hated it. It’s silly. It’s just a box. I would do these compositions where the teacher would say “You’ve got to go from the one to the four and resolve on the five. It’s gotta be in a key and here are the notes in that key.” Maybe if you’re a hyper-organized person, that might be a way to go, but I saw it as a way to put confines on creativity.

JR: Does it still inform you at all or do react against it?

HF: I reacted against it. I wish I had taken it a little more seriously. There were opportunities that I could have had, just in terms of sight reading or even communicating with people.

JR: Do you primarily compose on guitar?

HF: Yeah, eighty percent of what I do, I would say, but I improvise a lot. My new material is probably fifty percent experiments that I decided to take part in to try to break through something.

JR: “Do The Dishes” was very striking to me. That change is so profound in it with the synthesizer at the end. There’s a “whoa” moment at the end for me.

HF: (Laughs) I’m glad you like it. That was fun. Ben [Baker Billington] let me borrow his synth. Man, synthesizers look easy to play, but they are intense. There are so many controls. I had it for a week and didn’t know what I was really doing. The noise that I liked best was the one where I was doing no input - it was kind of broken and just made this humming noise. Anyway, I didn’t master it at all, so I’m glad you like the synth part because it was totally me just like fucking around.

JR: Oh cool! And you recently just toured both the United States and Europe? There’s a big difference, right?

HF: Oh yeah. Europe is a little easier as far as necessities. You get room, board, and meals. They give you riders. But at the same time, you have to ask for something or you won’t get it. Like, if you ask for water, they’ll be like “Oh, we don’t have water for you since you didn’t put it on your rider.” So, it’s interesting in that you just have to become vocal for what you want, but at the same time, I occasionally get hassled because my rider is the same everywhere, so if I play a basement show, the venue might say, “So, your rider…I saw that you wanted some whiskey and a hot meal and water and we didn’t do any of that.” And in that case, I don’t really care, but in general you just have to be very up front about what you need in Europe. The shows definitely have more of a community element in the U.S. though. I toured the states for like five years without a booking agent and I just recently got one, but I still have this DIY backbone so there’s a circuit of people that I meet in every city again and again, which is amazing and special. I don’t have that in Europe.

JR: So the booking came when you signed to Thrill Jockey or was it before that?

HF: It was before that. It’s been about two years. It’s good. It’s nice to have people supporting and vouching for you, but it is more removed because you’re cutting out a lot. DIY culture is all about meeting people and keeping in touch and trading, like goods for goods. I like touring. But for me, coming out of the DIY scene and being thrown into the world of contracts, contractual agreements, is still weird. I guess it’s the business side. And for me, I hate talking about money so if I can have someone do that for me, I can just worry about the music…and of course many other things.

JR: What do you think success in a DIY sense is?

HF: I don’t know. Feeling complete, I guess. Sustainability is not a goal in the DIY scene, I don’t think, which it is in the business space. DIY spaces come and go - it’s not about staying around forever. There’s more of an ebb and flow, supporting everyone. Support is important - everyone being supported, maybe not financially, but emotionally. The downside is that it can be a bit of a closed circle, though self-sustaining for a little while.

JR: I know it prides itself on being inclusive, but do you think that some of the downfall comes from a perceived exclusivity?

HF: I don’t think it’s like a “Cool Kids Club” or anything. I just think a lot of people don’t know about it. How do you find out about a DIY show unless you know someone who knows someone. I do think it’s interesting and cool that it comes with a media blackout. A lot of DIY spots don’t do Facebook events and they don’t do interviews. Some of that is to not get shut down by cops but some of it is just part of the culture of what they’re doing. It can be great - like Ray’s photos - I don’t know if you saw those - they’re at Situations right now, but they show the same fifty people over eight years. So you see this progression of the Chicago DIY scene and it’s beautiful. For me, I want to touch as many people as I can with my music - I like to give equal opportunity to everyone to like it or dismiss it (laughs).

JR: Do you think Chicago has a particularly tight DIY group?

HF: Yeah. I don’t think there’s like people in charge, but it’s a solid organism, even when that NATO summit happened a few years ago. They shut down four or five venues, but we recovered.

JR: Heavy hit. I was just reading about that actually. I had just moved to Chicago when that was going on, literally two weeks before that. I wasn’t really going to DIY shows at the time and I didn’t really know too much about the whole thing. In Durham there were only a couple places where you’d see a DIY show, not like here where there’s one every three blocks. So I was doing some research for an AdHoc piece and that’s when I asked Sara [Heymann] about Mortville, which I guess got shut down because of that.

HF: Quite a few did and it was silly. “Potential terrorism” was the threat. So, a house that hosts creative music could bring down the president or something (laughs). That’s the way it goes though with DIY shows.

JR: So the recent Thrill Jockey LP was the first one you didn’t really have a hand in releasing, right?

HF: I did three records with De Stijl, which was totally hands off. I would just send them the master and a record would show up. But I did Overdue completely on my own. And this is the first time doing a record with a larger label with resources and employees - it’s been really great.

JR: You enjoy it?

Photo by Julia Dratel

HF: Yeah. I’m definitely a control freak, I’ve learned, but I’m also figuring out how to let go and understanding that people are there to help me. I’m able to focus more on the music, instead of worrying about hustling a record downtown. And they’re very supportive and artist-oriented. I’ve thrown a few curveballs at them where I’ll want to do something because I feel like it or I get this idea. And they’ll be fine with it.

JR: Do they help with music videos?

HF: I do have a music video budget, which is nice. In regards to the video for “Do The Dishes,” they wanted me to do a different song for that, but I had the idea for the video and Bettina gave the go ahead and we switched it out. I don’t think every label would do that.

JR: It’s a very striking video too, just from the color palette, first off, the song’s imagery, and, of course, the fact that you bare yourself in it. It’s really courageous and memorable for sure. Was that difficult?

HF: The idea of it was difficult. I thought of it and was immediately afraid of it. But I also think that people take shit too seriously - it’s the fucking internet - why not put art on it? My mom said it was like a tattoo. But it doesn’t seem so permanent. And maybe my mom’s a little upset that I can’t be president one day (laughs) or that sort of thing. But it was interesting coming up with the idea, being afraid of it, and feeling like I had to do it because if I don’t push through the fear, then…well, there’s nothing wrong with a woman being nude in society at all. I think in the right context it can be beautiful and profound. If I didn’t do it, it would only be because I was afraid. I’m also trying to push past my own identity as a person and reach something else with my music and art. This was a way in which I felt anonymous kind of. It’s not about me.

HF: Julia Dratel shot it. She did the coloring. I love her style. She shoots such fine details and half of the shit she puts in her videos, I didn’t realize she was shooting.

JR: Yeah - she just did a Gel Set video too.

HF: Oh, great! How’d that go?

JR: You can tell it’s hers because of how it’s shot. And it’s got some level of absurdity too, but it has a lot of water in it. And water’s not as prevalent in yours (laughs). So I don’t know.

HF: (Laughs) No, it’s not. She just has a style that’s colorful, and interesting. She’s good to work with too - she’s such a hard worker.

JR: The idea of transcendence comes up with you a lot. What does that mean to you - you mentioned transcending your identity?

HF: Yeah, I think I was wrapped up in that for so long. Maybe it’s an age thing, but I really want to give back to society and people. I’d like to help as much as I can. I think words and cooking and all these things people can use to give things to other people aren’t my vessel. Music is where I feel the strongest and where I can help people the most. That’s what I’m trying to do. I want to sacrifice my life for this art in a conceptual way. I could have been doing it this whole time, I think, but I hadn’t really thought of it. I want to turn my life into a piece of art. I want everything that I do to not be an extension of me, but an extension of art. That could mean being on the road or things I decide to keep in my possession. It’s all in an effort to get to something.

JR: Seems alchemical.

HF: Sure. This is a new thing. I’m totally riffing, coming up with my ethos of life in this interview (laughs). It feels right, though. I’m an adult and I want to be part of something.

JR: You weren’t before?

HF: I was heavily affected by my own insecurities and darkness. There are dark events in everyone’s life, but mine stuck with me for a long time. I didn’t realize that I hadn’t let go of that stuff until recently, for whatever reason. I also have a pessimistic view on the world by nature and I’m trying to change that. I’m working on it. Life, in general, though, is amazing and people are good.

JR: I haven’t gotten there yet. I think about that a lot. I’m very pessimistic. Sometimes I have difficulty doing anything really. Seeing reasons to do things too and seeing that people are good - I think I do art or surround myself with art to survive.

HF: Yeah, you just joined this record label - that’s amazing. Without you, everything that these bands would be doing would be confined to the bedroom and you’re spreading the word - part of a greater good. Paying stuff forward.

JR: I hope so. When I’m at work, sometimes I feel like I’m putting on another person’s skin - acting a certain way, directing people. When I get home, I’m sometimes defeated and I need to go for like an hour long run as a buffer zone before I just jump back into my own flesh.

HF: Sure - I’ve started going to the gym more, which has become therapeutic to me as well, especially when I’m at a creative block or feeling down. I think it’s also about how you identify yourself too in a greater picture. Life has its ups and downs - it’s so strange, but the fact that we’re both still here is crazy (laughs).

JR: There are a few ways to lose your ego, I think - one of them is to commit suicide, another is to become a monk, and another is to repeat one action forever and ever and ever and ever and corrode yourself. They all work, but I think they take courage too. I think it’s harder to get rid of yourself than you think.

HF: Can’t fight the tide. I made a decision a couple years ago that I was only going to spend my time doing things that I want. Money comes into the equation pretty quickly. I think a lot of life boils down to what are you willing to do for money? Or, how valuable is your time? I can’t do a lot of things I wish I could because I’m a very poor person, but I choose the life I live. Record labels and music is fucking expensive. Anyone who’s reading this interview who thinks they know how expensive it is to put out a record is way off. They need to double whatever figure they think. Perhaps for you to have this stable job is important - you’re taking money and putting it towards good, rather than going to the bar every night. You’re not buying the Apple Watch or something.

JR: Yeah, but I probably just wouldn’t like that Apple Watch that much (laughs).

HF: The Apple Watch? Yeah, it’s so Orwellian.

JR: It is! Isn’t it? I was talking to my friend Jeffrey, who did the Death in June tour with me. And I was saying, these are such exciting times - it’s Blade Runner without the flying cars. You look outside and there’s an ad every two feet. You’re not allowed to think without businesses or placements intruding.

HF: Strange times we’re living in!

JR: So…uh…

HF: That got heavy (laughs).

JR: Do you know the movie Interstellar? Have you seen it?

HF: Yeah.

JR: When I saw that movie, it was a Saturday in December and I went by myself. I was in one of those reclining chairs at the very front completely center. You can be front and center in a recliner because then you don’t hurt your neck. And I just wept the entire movie. The whole time. Because it reminded me of being a child again - it was liberating. When I feel sad, I think about space or I read science fiction.

HF: The space aspect is humbling to you? Does it depress you?

JR: No, it doesn’t depress me at all. It’s really humbling and it puts everything in perspective and gives me wonder.

HF: When things are not going my way, I often think about the sun and how we’re the exact amount of distance away from it where we can all thrive. That’s such a stroke of luck. If it were any closer or further, things would be different. I guess that’s my humbling space thought (laughs). That’s a great movie. Science Fiction is awesome. It’s political and reflective of the time. And it’s challenging. The idea of space travel is also profound and brave, courageous. Unknown territory. It’s a metaphor for the true, great, worldwide heroes. I don’t know. Would you ever go to space? You ever thought about that?

JR: Yeah, I think about it all the time.

HF: I don’t think I’d go to space.

JR: You wouldn’t?

HF: (Laughs) No. No I wouldn’t. I also wouldn’t get in a submarine, probably for the same reasons - natural instincts of wanting to be where the oxygen is.

Photo by Samantha Saturday

JR: I’m terrified of flying and I’m terrified of dark water. I used to fly like twice a week for work and every time was panic attack city. I’m a little better now, I guess. I try to do the math. “Okay, I’ve flown this many times and nothing’s happened yet, even though I’ve been scared so maybe this one will be okay.”

HF: See, I’m the opposite. You’re talking about pessimistic plane flight thoughts, and I’ll start thinking “I’ve been on like three hundred flights and this could be the one - just one flight too many.” But that’s such a narcissistic thing to think. Why would my flight be the one that would crash? It’s self-centered.

JR: You feel fine after that?

HF: Yeah - I can also sleep on plans. It’s so weird. You’re in a tin can and when I think about the reality of it, of course I’m going to have a panic attack. You’re in a tin can launching through the sky. And no one turns their phone off! There are all these weird frequencies bouncing around - it can’t be good for you.

JR: I know a guy who does jet maintenance and I asked him “Do I really need to put on airplane mode when I fly?” And he said “Nope.” And I just was like, “Great, so I can text my mom as soon as this fucker starts going down.”

HF: It is weird going through security too. You feel guilty, even though you haven’t done anything. Like, why wouldn’t you be able to go through?

JR: Every time, since I wear this necklace that I never take off, I get a little paranoid. They usually just pat it, but I often think “What if this is the time that I get hauled out or rechecked?”

HF: Going through with an instrument is a hassle.

JR: Do they search it?

HF: Almost every time. Cooper [Crain] told me about Dan’s synth, this 1970s Yamaha analog synth that got taken apart and they shipped it back to states in parts - they didn’t even put it back together. They can do that, too. They’re not liable for anything. Cause, you know - it could have been a bomb. It’s so hard to fly as a musician, especially in Europe. There’s no “musicians’ rights” there.

JR: So you can’t carry instruments on? You have to check them?

HF: It’s terrible. Have you ever seen luggage get loaded onto a plane? It’s horrifying. They just chuck it. I was on this plane, on an international flight. There were all these carts with luggage. I watch everyone take the luggage out and put it into a pile. Then one guy starts yelling and waving his hands and all these people are scrambling - it turns out they had the luggage from two flights together - and people are trying to figure out which luggage goes where. There was no order, no system. And then they throw it onto the plane, throwing it like it’s nothing. It was the worst feeling in the world. They’re trying to stay on schedule at the expense of anything you have that’s valuable.

JR: I flew with a bunch of records from Miami here that we were going to sell. I filled my suitcase with records and then a backpack with records. And a backpack’s got no padding. So I was like “Is this a good idea? Well, probably could have been better, but I did it anyway.” I was pretty nervous, but they were fine.

HF: Did you bring them through security?

JR: No, I checked it. Most of the stuff I was bringing were records. I only have like one pair of jeans, the ones that are on me.

HF: And you never take those off, either? (laughs).

JR: No, not even in the shower. I just have this massive blow drier that I also check when I fly.

HF: I have a funny flight story. I flew to Europe on Iceland Air, which is an awesome airline. Great movies. I flew back Air Berlin, which is the world’s only budget transatlantic airline. I had brought my guitar, for which I bought a seat - I always buy a seat for my guitar in Europe, which is fine. I had my guitar and pedals. To check my clothes was going to be 180 Euros extra. So basically, in front of the clerk, I put on all my clothes. I had like eight pairs of underwear, three pairs of pants, two pairs of shorts, and seven shirts. I just left the rest at the airport. Anyway, when I was going through security, everything was going off. I could barely move with so many clothes. The lady goes to pat me down, and I’m this marshmallow person. I was explaining what I was doing and the lady totally had seen it happen before, but I got through - I won, right? I came back with all my favorite clothes.

JR: Do you collect a lot? Do you like to collect things?

HF: If I had more money, I would. I’m not much of an archivist or collector, but I exist between the realm of necessity and having shit for fun. I love records, but I’ve had to sell so many of them.

JR: I had to sell a lot of them for label stuff. There’s always going to be more records.

HF: But there are also times when you’re wanting to listen to some records and you’re like “Oh, fuck. I sold that one!”

JR: Yeah, and there are times when I’ve bought records back.

HF: It’s quick cash, for sure, and they don’t really depreciate. I don’t take care of mine that well - I don’t have them in sleeves. I just use them and love them.

JR: I keep mine in poly sleeves, but records are like the only thing I spend money on. Books too, I guess. I’ll go days without eating for a record. I can go about three days without eating.

HF: What’s the most you’ve ever spent on a record?

JR: Four hundred dollars.

HF: What record was it?

JR: Rowland S. Howard’s Teenage Snuff Film. Do you know that record?

HF: Whoa. Yeah.

JR: When I got sober, I listened to that record a lot. I saw a documentary of him about a month and a half after I got sober and, you know, the first part of recovery is the hardest. In the documentary, it ends, and Rowland’s given up heroin but he’s going to die. He’s going to die in the next few months. He dies before the documentary comes out. And at the end, he talks about wishing he had more time. And I knew that, “Fuck, I can’t drink and I can’t do drugs again.” That record means so much to me because of that. I got that record in April of 2014 and I stopped drinking and doing drugs on January 3, 2014. I listen to that record a lot. I think about how much that man wishes he were still alive and how much he can’t come back.

HF: That’s beautiful. Records can be magical. They can be very personal.

JR: Do you have a favorite record?

HF: Not a specific, favorite record. I have some cool records though. I’ve got some Jim Shepard records with paste on artwork and a Peter Jefferies record that’s a painting, where he sprinkled paint and glued stuff on. To me, it’s amazing. It’s a relic of time - it seems so personal. I love private pressing style stuff. My partner knows me - he’s a such a sweetheart - he keeps his records at his office. I fantasize about records and then sometimes when a special day rolls around, I get a record that I could never afford. That’s his romance - that’s how he gets to me. I’ll get home and a Patty Waters original from 1966 is on my bed and I’m like “What the fuck! This is amazing! All my dreams are coming true!” I love ESP-Disk.

JR: You just did that list, right? You only got three choices?

HF: Yeah, and how can you pick three? It was supposed to be a beginner’s guide too, but I like the weirder stuff, like whale noises. My idea of pop music is different than other peoples’. So I just went through and picked out the hits, I guess. I don’t know if I’m into hits, though. And Ben [Baker Billington] is on ESP-Disk. Last time Tiger Hatchery played in town, they played at Situations and it was fairly industrial-sounding. They’re such a good band.

JR: So, like, none of what I asked you was what I was going to ask you (laughs). But I think it’s more fun that way just to riff. Do you have a ritual when you play or when you make music?

Photo by Julia Dratel

HF: Well, it depends. I have my studio, which is totally messed up right now. My studio is sacred space - it has things my friends have given me and some crystals. I don’t have any ritual that I do when I record, but when I play live, I habitually do things. I stretch, I do vocal warm ups. I put on my gigging boots.

JR: You have gigging boots?

HF: Yeah, I have gigging boots (laughs). And if it’s a big show that I’m nervous for, I’ll shine them in the green room before I play. Vocal warm ups are hard because they’re loud and they get in peoples’ way. A lot of places I play don’t have a green room so I have to walk around the city and I look like a lunatic doing vocal warm ups, but I need to do a 45 minute vocal warm up, which I’ve only really been able to do completely a few times.

JR: How long have you been singing? 

HF: Since I was ten or eleven. I took vocal lessons and then when I went to college I didn’t. I think I’m getting into the second layer of my voice now, like I’m really becoming a musician. I did my first couple improv gigs recently, which were eye-opening. It was me and Carol Genetti, who’s kind of a secret vocalist from Chicago. She never tours. She’s been doing improv vocals for something like twenty-three years. She has so many world within her voice. I like Meredith Monk and Diamanda Galas, but it’s different when you’re practicing. I just did forty days in a month and a half. It feels good, though - it’s awesome.

JR: When did you start singing baritone?

HF: I’ve always sung baritone. I listened to a record I did in 2011 and I sound like a completely different person - my voice has just gotten lower and lower and lower, and I was wondering “Is this going to bottom out?” But it just kept going and I think I can maintain it now, but it’s always changing. The voice is crazy. Everything you drink touches it. Everything you eat touches it. When you talk, it affects your voice. Your air affects your voice. It’s a muscle and it will wear out one day. It’s a delicate instrument. I think about that a lot now, but I didn’t used to.

HF: In High School, I would sing guy parts like Tenor 1’s. I would try out for solos, but would never get them. I guess I didn’t have a voice suitable for star power - I wasn’t a Soprano 1. I felt a little awkward growing up with a low voice, but now I embrace it.

JR: Do you think you have a low talking voice?

HF: I think my talking voice is low, yeah, but my singing voice is much lower, I’ve been told. The way you sound to yourself is lower because it resonates in your face.

JR: Yeah, I think I’m more manly in general than I probably am, too. Gruffer.

HF: I think I’m more manly too.

JR: Well, that makes two of us. And you recently started getting acrylic nails for when you play, right?

HF: I did it right before this European tour and I’m really fucking up my guitar. It’s shredding my guitar, but it allows me to play more consistently, which is important. I finger pick a lot. I took gelatin pills for a while, which gives you great, shiny hair and sturdy finger nails. But my natural finger nails always break. A few of my friends use them, though, and they like them so I decided to try it out.

JR: Yeah, I think Ryley [Walker] does, right?

HF: Yeah. Ryley goes to a Vietnamese lady and I go to a Mexican lady. They look really different. I think mine look pretty badass, and they’re cheap too.

JR: So, in regards to the physical presentation before a show, what all do you have to do? I guess that sort of touches on the ritual thing.

HF: There’s a visual aspect to performance. I hate it. If I had it my way, I would sing behind a screen and someone would lip sync. It’s uncomfortable and I think there’s this double standard. I just had four live reviews in a row from Europe and the first thing that each of them talked about was how I looked. “She wore bell-bottom pants and her hair was in her face…” And I’m like, what the hell - that never happens with men. I’m not into fashion. I’m not a fashionable person and it makes me uncomfortable. It takes a lot of time, too, doing make up. When I have a show, I have to pack, and get my records, then I have to get ready for the actual show, like putting on makeup and taking a shower. Some people like that aspect of dressing up and becoming someone else, but it’s unnatural for me. It’s true too that I’ll sell more records if I wear lipstick and have a nice pair of pants. It’s just true. That’s the way the world works.

JR: Is that why you dress up and prepare yourself like that?

HF: Yeah, but sometimes it feels like armor too. It’s part of preparation and it takes a lot of time. I’m getting more comfortable getting in front of an audience, because I’ve been doing it for eight years now, but I fucking hate getting my photos taken. I hate being elevated on a stage with lights on me. I don’t like people looking at me. I like being the person at the back of class and I’m not going to raise my hand. I like to watch - I like people watching. Putting on makeup is part of the gig, I guess. It’s nice to feel attractive too. Makeup makes me feel more attractive in that context - I think it’s appropriate for whatever reason.

JR: Do you like to play live?

HF: I love to play live. I don’t do well traveling. I like meeting new people, but I wish the shows would come to me. All of these people would come to Chicago to see me. Sometimes I take it personally when you travel really far and you play a set that wasn’t your best or some cosmic force pits things against you - the PA dies or everyone’s having a bad day and they’re talking and drinking loudly. I’m a fragile person. But I’ve become a better musician through touring. It’s vital. I think every musician needs to tour. You learn a lot about yourself and you get better at your instrument. I like playing a set for a month and feeling the progress. I get back home after a month and so much progress has been made.

JR: It elevates and elevates.

HF: Yeah, you just keep doing it - getting better and better. Touring alone is a trip in itself. I’m bringing people on these next couple tours and it’s going to be great. It will present its own set of challenges, I think, since there will be so many of us, but anything is better than traveling the world alone without anyone to share experience with. Actions live and die on your own because there’s no one to share them with.

JR: Is it lonely?

HF: Very lonely. And I used to not mind the isolation when I was younger. It’s true. You can be whomever you want to be every night. You have freedom to do what your heart desires, but the older I get, the more I realize that I know who I am. It doesn’t seem as exploratory in a fundamental way anymore. Like going through shit to come out stronger on the other side. It gets lonely. Well, you travel alone a lot.

JR: It’s super lonely, but you can become more comfortable with yourself.

HF: It can be reflective, but too much of it is strange. Hotel rooms too. They can be such a safe haven or hell on earth.

JR: I lived for the first three months in Miami in hotel rooms. Definitely gets to a point where it’s less fun. I lived for a while in hotels in Charleston too and in Virginia and D.C. and a little bit in L.A.

HF: Hotel rooms have so much energy. So many people have been in and out of them. You can feel the energy. Sometimes it’s inviting and great, but sometimes it’s really bothersome.

JR: I think hotel rooms are hard to stay for a while too. Things are laid out to make you feel as though you’ve got to get out of there quickly. It’s easy to feel unwelcome.

HF: And housekeeping comes in at like eight or nine every time. Man, checkout’s at 11. I’ve got the “Do Not Disturb” sign right there! It’s a lesson to always use the latch, don’t sleep completely nude, and you’re good to go.

JR: I’ve yet to learn those two things. No - just kidding. I never really sleep nude cause I wear my one pair of pants all the time (laughs). So what else is in the future for Haley Fohr?

HF: Touring forever (laughs). I’ve been recording too. I’m finishing up a secret album next week. I’m not going to say anything about it except that it’s crazy and everyone tells me that it’s the worst idea I’ve ever had, which is really exciting! Then I’m on the road until like December. Come find me. No Miami dates though.

JR: Playing anywhere near Florida?

HF: I think the closest I’m playing is Texas.

JR: Okay, that’s pretty far.

Tour Dates:

Sun-Aug-16 SANTA ANA, CA @ Observatory (Berserktown Festival)
Mon-Aug-17 SAN FRANCISCO, CA @ Brick & Mortar
Wed-Aug-19 PORTLAND, OR @ Doug Fir Lounge
Thu-Aug-20 VANCOUVER, BC @ Cobalt
Fri-Aug-21 SEATTLE, WA @ Lo-fi Performance Gallery
Sat-Aug-22 BOISE, ID @ MING Studios
Mon-Aug-24 DENVER, CO @ Rhinoceropolis
Tue-Aug-25 OMAHA, NE @ O'Leavers
Wed-Aug-26 IOWA CITY, IA @ Gabe's *Note venue change*
Thu-Aug-27 MINNEAPOLIS, MN @ 7th Street Entry
Fri-Aug-28 CHICAGO, IL @ The Hideout
Sep. 11 - 13 HUDSON, NY @ Basilica Sound Scape
20.09.2015 Tilburg (NL), Incubate Festival
21.09.2015 Aalst (BE), Netwerk
22.09.2015 Duesseldorf (DE), Filmwerkstatt (NEW!)
23.09.2015 Karlsruhe (DE), Kohi (NEW!)
24.09.2015 Luzern (CH), Suedpol
25.09.2015 Lausanne (CH), Le Bourg
26.09.2015 Duedingen (CH), Bad Bonn
29.09.2015 Paris (FR), Cafe L'Olympique (NEW!)
30.09.2015 London (UK), Cafe Oto
01.10.2015 Manchester (UK), The Eagle Inn
02.10.2015 Glasgow (UK), The Hug & Pint
05.10.2015 Luxembourg (LU), de Gudde Wëllen (NEW!)

Interview with Sandworm

For a fan of projects like Ildjarn, Darkthrone, Akitsa and other minimal lo-fi black metal projects, Sandworm scratches a pesky itch. There's never enough of the stuff if you ask me. When I think of lo-fi black metal, I think of bands that come from mostly punk backgrounds because there's usually a distinctly DIY feel to the music, which is often notable in the recording quality. That's not a bad thing, if you ask me: it adds a layer of rawness or edge to both guitar tones and vocals while replacing a crisp drum sound with more of a rhythmic ideal.

That's what could have been said about the sonic quality in Sandworm's Demo, but their new split with the Body brings out the band with a more full range of sound and songs. Three of the songs from the demo are repeat offenders on the split, albeit with a more produced effect. Let's call it as it is: Sandworm recorded the split with better equipment, though the excellent songwriting has been there since the beginning. On this split, though, they REALLY shine. Ben Eberle's guitar is sinister, varying between quick chord changes and icy languishing behind a voice that sounds like snarling, wounded though not defeated wolf after a fight with a bear. And Patrick Reilly's drums are relentless and martial: commanding as a drill sergeant. Yeah. It's fucking wonderful.

I unfortunately missed their show at Chicago's Emporium, though I have high hopes to see them on a future tour. In the following interview, Ben alludes to writing more songs and hopefully recording more music. Here's hoping.

Jordan Reyes: Sandworm is a sweet name for a band. I personally get kind of sick of seeing Black Metal bands pick names of demons out of some grimoire, though I love science fiction. Did you get the name from Dune?

Ben Eberle: Yes. It took us a long time to think of a band name. We agree that picking 'grim' names can get exhausting, plus we aren't really that kind of band. We started the band with very little concept. Sandworm is a band name that is kind of weird but also neutral in a way. 

JR: The easy comparisons after listening to your demo for me are like Ildjarn, Bone Awl, early Darkthrone, Akitsa. Do you find yourselves at all inspired or influenced by the likes of those bands?

BE: Pat and I have very different tastes. I listen to metal more than any other genre and that is the kind of music that I identify with for the most part. I would say that Ildjarn is the biggest influence and I certainly listen to a lot of Darkthrone. I also like Bone Awl and Akitsa. Pat doesn't really listen to metal or associate with it or have any real interest in it. We have overlapping interests in other music genres. 

JR: Your original demo came out in 2011. I guess I'm a little late to the party, but do you guys have any releases other than the demo and the new split with the Body? Was Sandworm on hiatus until now?

BE: Those are the only two releases. We were once on hiatus for a short time while Pat lived in Austin but it has been pretty consistent. At one point our good friend Mindy Stock was in the band. She plays on three songs on the split. 

JR: How did you decide to do a split with The Body? I know you guys are both from Providence - did you guys know each other for a while?

BE: We had been meaning to record for a while. We have been friends with The Body for years and we always play with them when they come to town. Once the recording was in place, I asked Lee if he wanted to do a split and it went from there. 

JR: Your songs on the split sound like mixing and producing took a bigger priority. I know that three of the songs from the split were on your demo, but how different was the process of getting the ten songs from the split down as they are on the split in comparison to the demoing process?

BE: The demo sounds so different because the sound was less developed and we used different equipment and such. The split sounds like our live sound. We wanted it to sound natural and organic. 

JR: Was it weird working with Thrill Jockey? I personally love that label's outlook and output, so I'm curious.

BE: It wasn't weird at all. It was simple and straightforward. Bettina and the TJ crew are awesome. They are professional and very knowledgeable. Really nice group of people. Working with them is great. 

JR: Somewhat an insipid question, but I was an English major so humor me. What do you guys talk about in your lyrics? I can't make out a lot of the lyrics.

BE: I don't have much to say about this really. 

JR: Do you think you guys will do an LP at some time in the future?

BE: No plans yet but we certainly hope so. We already have a bunch of new stuff written. We have been playing it on tour. 

JR: How has your tour gone so far? Anything particularly surprising for you guys?

BE: It's going great. Booking the shows to and back from the west coast was tough for me and some dates fell through. Neither of us have ever been to the west coast so there was a lot of new things to explore. The shows with The Body were especially awesome, of course. 

JR: What else is in the future for Sandworm?

BE: Who knows? Maybe we will tour again in the future and make another record. For now, we'll probably just play shows in Providence and write more songs. 

JR: Anything else you'd like to say?

BE: Thanks for the interest, it was nice talking to you. 

Release of the Day: Oozing Wound - Earth Suck

"Metal" as a culture can be liberating or extremely confining. So many metal bands talk about the same shit, which is fine for cheap kicks, but gets a little boring to me. And you can't fit into some subgenre if you don't do something perfectly right. Closed-minded musi-making just grates on my existence for some reason. A few months ago, I was explaining to Zack Weil how metal can be like a wart. There are two kinds of warts, kind of like stalagmites and stalactites, where one grows outwardly and one grows inwardly. I had this one for like two years that made it hurt when I walk because it was right on my big toe and it was growing inward so every time that I would take a step, it would just get pushed deeper into my toe and rattle on my bone. Anyway, that's what insular music experiences get you - a wart that is growing inwards. I eventually got that wart removed in case you were concerned and things are much better.

Anyway, the Ooze are wart-like, I guess, but they're also chill bros. Let's face it, though, "wart-like" ain't an insult, it's just a description, and it fits, but the Ooze is an externalizing wart that touches those that pass with pus and comedic pessimism. Take "Going Through the Motions Til I Die" for example: "Die, you can do it/Well, won't you give it a try/There's nothing to it, well/If you don't, you'll still die." It's like. Yeah, good point, true, lemme just finish this noose knot before I get back to you *lurch, creak, snap*.

That's the way it goes when you're the Wizard of Ooze. You embrace the ugly and the horrific. It's like laughing to keep from crying. "I can't wake up without my hippie speedball." It's over-the-top and absurd, but that's the fucking truth for some people. When I was reeling in addiction, I could go for almost a full week without eating, just sustaining on alcohol and stimulants. I ain't proud of it, but it's a familiar reality.

Sometimes absurdist humor is the best way to get through the bad times. Dope riffs ain't bad either, though.

Ooze on, you crazy diamond.

Interview with White Hills

White Hills make psychedelic space rock for the apocalypse - it's as heavy as a death in the family and precise as a karate chop to the larynx. Ego Sensation and Dave W are the two consistent members in the band's roster and have been melting faces for almost ten years with different lineups and gear rigs. I've only seen them a couple times, but they're one of those bands where the members transcend the typical musician's role by becoming pure conduits of sound as a near-elemental force. The combination of showmanship, lighting, and virtuosity makes for an always impressive and unique experience.

White Hills have released several records on Thrill Jockey and other labels - there seems to be a constant flow of new music that these guys put out and they never really stop touring. In addition, they've even appeared in Jim Jarmusch's movie Only Lovers Left Alive, where they play "Under Skin or By Name," from their album Glitter Glamour Atrocity, which is being reissued by Thrill Jockey in August - I will surely be picking this up, and I strongly recommend anyone reading this to do so as well.

You can keep up with the band on their Facebook Page and their Website. They still have a few shows left in the US for this summer before booking their way over to Europe, so be sure and catch them if they're playing anywhere near you.

Jordan: You guys have been making music for a long while now. Have you seen any change in regards to who goes to a White Hills show?

DW: The audiences seem to get more diverse. 

ES: We definitely can't pigeon-hole our audience. We always talk with people after shows and the variety is amazing- there are dads with their teenage daughters and both are psyched to be there, groups of young skater kids, a bone researcher from the Smithsonian, a financial analyst that flew from Milan to London just to see us, hippy-spinner women left over from the Grateful Dead era, vinyl-holics, etc. White Hills fans are fascinating individuals.

J: This is a bit of a similar question, but have you seen any changes in the psychedelic community at large? Are there any specific words you would use to characterize modern psych rock?

DW: The big change is that there seems to be more people who like "psych" music now and what is considered to be psychedelic music seems to cover a broader spectrum now. A lot of it is basically "indie" music. That said, psych seems to be a bit of an "in" thing at the moment. It's like the catch all phrase that has replaced "Indie" in reference to something new and played by a younger generation. Funny thing is most of what is considered to be "psych" now really isn't psychedelic at all. It's just good old pop music. 

J: Your live show is really impressive from your guitar rigs to the light orchestration to your wardrobe. What goes through your mind(s) when preparing for a White Hills tour or live show?

ES: We like to transport ourselves and the audience into another dimension. We're always seeking new ways to create that kind of magic- sometimes it's as complicated as an intricate musical passage and sometimes as simple as glitter falling from a cymbal. The point is to create a multi-sensory, provocative experience for people.

J: Do you guys have consistent equipment as you tour or do you change up?

ES: We change things up. We're in a constant cycle of growing, finessing and changing. This involves trying out new equipment- different combinations of amps, pedals etc. A lot of musicians tend to get hooked on their favorite guitars/amps etc and will accept no substitute. Sometimes you don't even realize how that narrow-mindedness limits your creativity.

J: It seems like you guys are on a perpetual tour. Is the live show more invigorating or important to you than a recording?

DW: They are two different things. Both are important for different reasons. There is no point in comparing the two. 

ES: The great thing about performing live is that you get to make that immediate connection with the audience. It's exciting to be involved in that symbiotic relationship- the audience is there for the band and the band is there for the audience and it all comes down to mutual joy and gratitude.

J: What has been the most interesting place for you to play?

ES: We played in Greece for the first time last year. It was fantastic because the audiences were so vocal with their excitement and appreciation of the music.

DW: This is such a hard question to answer, because every place has something unique about it, thus making it something interesting and special. 

J: You guys put out a split 10" with Earthless. It's a great record and also one of those Scion AV records. The Scion program really fascinates me - they've had some really amazing artists on their music program. What was it like working with Scion and Earthless?

J: What role do you think corporations like Scion have and/or should have in music?

DW: It depends. The cool thing about the Scion event was that there was no advertising for any of their cars at the event, or on the record, outside of their name being behind it. I like what Scion does for music. They put on interesting events that span many genres without shoving their product in your face. There is the element that they are doing it for the music more than anything else. 

In regard to Earthless, they are great guys and one amazing band. We've been wanting to play with them for sometime and were psyched when the opportunity arose.  

ES: Throughout history artists have relied on patrons. Some countries actually set aside a budget to support arts and culture but unfortunately in the US it's not a priority. Scion is a good example of a corporation that is being supportive of music without forcing their advertising down your throat.

J: On the other hand, you have put out a bunch of records on Thrill Jockey. How does your experience with Thrill Jockey compare? Do you guys have a tried-and-true system for releasing records on Thrill Jockey?

ES: Scion is like a passionate one-night stand and Thrill Jockey is our adorable, dependable boyfriend! (Don't worry- TJ knows about Scion and vice-versa. We're all very adult.) They have been a great label to work with mainly because there are strong ethics behind the business- they put out music for the love of music and share profits equally with the artists. We only record a new album when the music is ready- it's not based on the label demanding a new product from us.

DW: In the same way that Scion is a patron of music, so is Thrill Jockey. They truly believe in every record they put out. That is rarely seen in this day and age. 

J: It seems like you guys are also always recording music. Are you writing or recording anything right now?

DW: Creating is what we do. Something is always bubbling within. 

J: White Hills to me is a visually enticing band. Who does the art for you guys for stuff like album covers or t shirts? How would you describe the overlap between your visuals and your music?

DW: I have done the majority of the artwork for our releases. In the past we've had Alan Forbes and David D V'Andrea do some artwork for us. The artwork reflects an overall vision for each release that ties directly into the music contained within the album. The visual component is just as important as the music, lyrics and title of each release. They all fit into the greater story of each album. 

J: What's in the future for White Hills?

ES:  Lately we've been experimenting with some new ideas to expand our live show. In terms of touring, there have been a lot of offers from places we've never been before like Australia, South America and Japan so we're hoping to make those plans a reality. We'll be working on a soundtrack for an independent film next year. We like to stay busy and creative.

DW: Let's not forget the re-issue of our second album "GLITTER GLAMOUR ATROCITY" that is coming out in August on Thrill Jockey. This is the album that has the song, "Under Skin or By Name", that we perform in Jarmusch's "Only Lovers Left Alive".

J: Anything else you'd like to say?

ES: Challenge your thoughts, walk down a different street, listen to a new album, question the facts, give a stranger a compliment, eat ice cream for breakfast and drink coffee for dinner. Live now baby!

DW: Log off of your computer, go outside, there is a wonderful world at your finger tips just waiting to be explored. Even the most common places you know have a new treasure just waiting to be discovered.