Interview with Pawns

Photo from Bexcellent Media

Some afternoon a few months back, while I was no doubt lying on my couch and humming “Heaven Knows I’m Miserable Now,” I received a text from my friend Jeffrey saying that I needed to hear a new deathrock/punk band called Pawns. A quick Google search returned two self-released seven-inch records, each three songs long. The band had recently finished a United States tour, including the stop in Chicago where Jeff saw them: the unfortunate reality of living dangerously close to mile marker zero is that Miami residents often lose out on touring acts, so I frequently have to rely on friends from more tour-friendly cities.

That said, I’m in a bit of a privileged position as I have the luxury of often traveling for both work and play, which was the case in October when I got to bum around New York for a few days: my label had a day-long CMJ showcase at Palisades, all the reason I needed to jet on over. The same night as our showcase, Destruction Unit played at Alphaville with Snakehole and Horoscope. Much to my delight, Pawns were also on the bill.

Pawns are a fucking joy to watch. Gage Allison writhes and wraiths, incanting darkness while bassist Jenna Rose leers into the audience and Noel Mateus snakes sinister guitar lines through Matt Sullivan’s plodding rhythms. Tight but explosive, Pawns draw their power from theatricality as well as auditory prowess, rather than forsaking one for the other. Totally great band - highly recommended!

Jordan Reyes: I love New York - I've never lived there, though I had a short tenure living on an air mattress in the studio at Heaven Street Records, but I enjoy visiting quite a bit. There's so much going on at all times. Is it ever frustrating or difficult to differentiate yourself there? Does that matter to you?

Gage Allison: I wouldn’t consider it frustrating or difficult. That being said, I don’t think any of us go out of the way to really differentiate ourselves. There is a lot going on but one of the redeemable things about all the oversaturation you’re subjected to is that there is a niche for everything.

Noel Mateus: If you have a good scene or friends supporting you, then that's what sets you apart from most of the people playing music in this city, and that can go a long way in making it less frustrating and more enjoyable.

Jenna Rose: I have a very different problem. I tend to be a loner so I don’t get out much, which makes it difficult for me to affiliate with any particular scene. I have a practice space and a little recording studio where I spend most of my time. I like to hang out with my cat. When I do make it out I experience a lot of overlap and camaraderie between the separate music communities, even though I don’t quite fit the bill in any given scene.

JR: When I think of Pawns, I can't help but think about the nascent L.A. Deathrock scene, coexisting with the punk scene - it sort of mirrors your punk/hardcore background and overlap. There's a co-mingling, which is somewhat inescapable, but did Pawns come from a desire to break away from old habits, so to speak, or to move them forward?

GA: I’d have to say for me personally it’s about moving forward. I’ve been playing in punk/hardcore bands since I was a little kid and never really branched out from that until now. I definitely consider Pawns to be a punk band, though we obviously take more influence from the darker side of the genre, but there’s no doubt that a lot of the same bands that influenced me then still do today.

JR: What relevance do you think "punk" as an ethos has in the modern era? Are D.I.Y. ideals more important now that the creative playing field is more flat, meaning more people have access to making and distributing art?

GA: To answer that you kind of have to define punk as an ethos before you can really touch on its relevance. These days everyone defines it differently and I guess there isn’t really a right answer. For me, punk is a culture that I have been ingrained in since I was very young and it will always have relevance in my life whether I identify as such or not. In a lot of ways it made me who I am today. That being said I couldn’t express more how important DIY ethics are to the punk scene and if punk culture moves away from that I think it would be safe to say that punk finally is dead (haha).

JR: I got to see you all play with Destruction Unit, Snakehole, and Horoscope in October. It was a great show. I was sort of transfixed by the mask you wore - the one with the three faces. It reminded me of Satan's appearance at the bottom of hell in Dante's Inferno. Who made the mask? What's the significance, if there is one to speak of, in wearing it?

GA: I made the mask a few months ago out of papier-mâché and wire. There were a few influences in coming up with the idea but I think it would be boring to really touch on the significance of it. I’d rather have that be up to interpretation.

JRose: I’m happy to hear it be compared to Satan in Dante’s Inferno. He can’t see shit through it. He thinks it’s funny to smash through me on stage while wearing it.

NM: I love it when he stumbles all over my pedals while wearing it...

JR: Let's talk about performance as an imparting of self. I find myself hearing two schools of thought: that performance is an act, a character or story being told, and I've also heard that it's an exorcism, or expulsion of truth. Is either of those applicable to Pawns?

GA: That’s funny that you mention this because Jenna and I discuss this all the time. I really find myself unaware of my actions on stage. It’s hard to tell if whoever I become when performing is a different person or merely an honest exaggeration of self, but every now and then someone will mention something I did while playing a show and I’ll be like “I did that?”

JRose: For me it is most certainly an exorcism. I remember the first time I read Artaud’s Theatre of Cruelty and how immediately my life changed. He had given me permission to express that which I am unable to say, and furthermore, with purpose. (I’ve been told it is inappropriate to assault others outside of a theatrical context).

JR: Is truth important in music, art, or performance? Can something be genuine and also fiction?

GA: I don’t think there is such thing as “truth” so elaborating on its importance in art is futile. Everything we believe, say, make or do is molded by our surroundings and those surroundings were built on foundations of the same scenario for generations all the way to the beginning of time. When it comes down to it, being genuine in art and music is bullshit.

JRose: Gage has been reading too much Sartre.

JR: So far you all have released two 7"s - one from about a year ago, if I'm not mistaken, and one from a few months ago, which you toured recently. Do you think that the band has changed in the short but not insignificant interim period?

GA: We have definitely grown a lot between our first self-titled 7” and Eternal Return. I think we’re getting more comfortable with the kind of music we are playing and have more of a shared consensus on the direction we want to take the band.

JR: Do you guys have any desire to make or have you started writing/working on a full-length record?

NM: That's the plan as of now. We're taking a break from shows and trying to focus on writing new material that so far we're very excited about. Some of it has been played live, but a lot is still in the works. In a way the direction we're going in takes us back to our roots; to the more punk/anarcho influences that got us playing this kind of music in the first place.

GA: Yeah we’re planning on recording this Winter and will ideally have our first full length out sometime next year (2016).

JR: I'm a fairly big horror junkie - I pretty much only watch horror, sci-fi, and movies from Japan - do you guys have any favorite horror flicks?

GA: I’m a pretty big zombie nerd myself. Dawn of the Dead and Night of the Living Dead are great. Can’t forget about the classics like The Shining and Rosemary’s Baby too. Have you seen any good contemporary horror movies lately? They’re few and far between but I couldn’t recommend House of the Devil and It Follows more.

NM: Hausu was cool.

JR: What about books? Read anything of note lately?

NM: Gabriela, Cravo e Canela by Jorge Amado. I grew up in Brazil and went to school there up until 6th grade, so every once in a while I like to brush up on my Portuguese and read some. Thanks mom for keeping me cultured.

JRose: Camus is my all-time favorite writer. Lately I’ve been reading some Baudelaire and Anthony Burgess’ M/F, if you’re looking for something funny to read…

JR: What all is in the future for Pawns?

GA: Not exactly sure yet. Like we said, we plan on putting out a full length next year that will pull us in a slightly different direction. Very excited to see where that takes us.

NM: We self-released our first two 7"s and that was cool and all, but we’re hoping to release our full length through a label we like. We're all very happy with how we've done so far, thankful for all the support from friends, and excited for what the future holds.

JR: Anything else you'd like to say?

GA: Black lives matter! Free Palestine! Etc

Release of the Day: Round Eye - Round Eye

 Shanghai’s Round Eye is a true freak’s dream - half punk, half noise, half jazz, and half bad math. As much from the school of Albert Ayler as the Boredoms, the Flesh Eaters, or the Residents, Round Eye is chock full of audacity and ability. On their self-titled LP, the band proves its ability to go from interesting to compulsively important in the span of a couple minutes, and let’s be honest – these cats are fucking great on their instruments. While Round Eye clearly pulls from an improvisational tapestry, their album is hypercomposed, moving along as though some mutant opera with clearly-defined suites and moods that rear their ugly, or occasionally staggeringly beautiful, heads to the listener. A lesser band would be out of its league, but Round Eye dual wields a strange restraint alongside its bombastic energy and volume.

On track two, “Street Light A,” the band begins with the free jazz instrumental with which the listener may seem somewhat familiar from track one, but when the vocals hit, it’s a free-for-all. This is where Round Eye lets the listener in on the program for the evening, so to speak. From this point on, the defined chaos meanders from punk bangers like “City Livin” to instrumental landscapes like “HeSheRoshima,” all the while maintaining a consistent hold on its unique voice and backdrop.

This is boundless music, perhaps wearing influences, but certainly casting off any and all shackles. Stream it below!

Release of the Day: Foul Tip/Lil Tits 7" Split

Maximum Pelt did a number on this one. The search for sonic comparison between Lil Tits and Foul Tip is tricky: the only clear parallel is instrumentation, as both bands have bass and drums, which is to say that these bands pull different spools on the punk technicolor dreamcoat. But who listens to a record, especially a split for that matter, to hear the same song two to four times? No one cool.

First off, both bands are monsters. Lil Tits, who on these tracks feature Hanna Hazard, Madalyn Garcia, and Pixie Rose is on some serious witchage, a little bit Suspiria and a little bit Hocus Pocus. They tear through two songs on the b-side after a menacing intro, which locks into a noisy bass groove. Lil Tits ain't about the calm before the storm - fuck the calm before the storm. Now there's two storms, possibly three, and the pallid horseman of the apocalypse follows. These songs are shouted over menacing guitar lines, throbbing bass, and dynamic drums. Equal parts hardcore and stoner me
tal. Shit rips.

Foul Tip, drum and bass punk funk band starring Ed Bornstein and Adam Luksetich, are tight and fast. Like the best pop songs, "Madness" draws power from the interplay with tension and release. But Foul Tip does restraint so well that when the bass-driven explosion occurs and the band shouts "Cut this out/Can't go Back/I don't care/I caught the madness," it's a goddamn revelation. Wish the band had put two songs on this split too, but that's a good problem to have.

Interview with Snakehole

Lisa Marten-Owens Photography

Back in January, before taking up residence in Miami, I e-mailed ZZ Ramirez from Ukiah Drag asking if he knew what was cool in Miami. Where are the weirdos? What bands should I check out? This was his response: "If you get a chance check out the band Snakehole - they are my favorite down there and the coolest girls in total Miami style. Go to gigs at Churchills. If you hang around long enough the weird will come to you." This was eerily accurate. My hat's off to you, Mr. Ramirez.

Snakehole welds the dirge of a witch's funeral with the noise-enriched-snot-rocketry of a band like Flipper. The two women behind the project, Autumn Casey and KC Toimil, are, for all intents and purposes, symbiotic, which shows in their performances: their sets are as inspiring as they are mesmerizing. Like many duos reliant on eye contact and body language, Snakehole transitions through sets with little verbal communication strangely seamlessly, reason enough to see the band. But the band also writes really fucking good songs with really fucking good riffs - the kind of mental residents that buy a La-Z boy, and don't care about knocking over the flowers when they put up their feet.

They've got an upcoming 12" in the works with one of my favorite contemporary labels Wharf Cat Records. I believe their self-titled EP is out of print, but you can still order their tape on Kill/Hurt.

Jordan Reyes: Let’s talk first off about the light-up mirror that you use to perform. What’s the deal with it?

Autumn Casey: I got that mirror from a former stripper that is in the Keys. KC has a house down there. We’re thinking about making our performances weirder, where we weave in other elements. The mirror seemed creepy, I guess. It’s supposed to be played in tandem with the piano. We can’t obviously bring this (points to large piano set up) with us.

KC Toimil: I recorded Autumn playing it on my tape player, which I press before we start. I put in some echo too - it sounds really cool.

AC: It’s fitting too because it has this glowing circle of light. I was thinking of Snakehole in conjunction with this menacing look in the mirror. We had just got capes too that our friend Kyle made for us.

KCT: Kyle is also the devil in our music video.

JR: I haven’t seen that video yet.

AC: You should see it. Kyle painted himself to look exactly like the devil. The music video has us practicing. Then Kyle as the devil paddles up on a surfboard, and comes in. KC is the only one who doesn’t trust him so he chases her around with a flyswatter, but we all become friends.

KCT: We tried to make it like a bad dream.

JR: You guys have something you’re doing for Wharf Cat right? Is that happening now? Are you guys writing it?

KCT: Yeah, we were working out a song today. We’re almost done.

AC: We just need to do our last song - we worked it out to do a pretty long noise jam. We were talking to Trip and he said if we got it to twenty minutes, we could do a 12” at 45 rpm, which will be super loud and heavy. We’re going to record it next week. We’ve been taking our time since he first approached us because we went on tour, which is a hard time to sit down, write music, and pay your bills.

JR: It’s hard to pay bills without music in the mix! You guys seem to play out every week or every two weeks?

KCT: Yeah, April was weird. I don’t know how that happened. We don’t want to play any this month. We play Churchill’s a lot in general, though.

JR: That place is awesome. I heard someone call it the CBGB’s of the South.

AC: It’s pretty much a historical landmark at this point, but it makes no sense. It’s a British pub in the heart of Little Haiti.

KCT: One of the comedians I saw there recently brought that up. “What the fuck is up with the name Churchill’s? Winston Churchill probably had no idea that Miami existed.”

AC: The former owner, Dave, was from England. I worked there for like six years or something crazy when I first moved to Miami - it was like the second job I got and then I just never left.

JR: You still work there?

AC: No, I eventually had to quit - it became too much of a love-hate relationship. For a while, it was like the Wild West. It wasn’t the healthiest situation. It becomes a little black hole-ish if you’re there six days a week. When I wasn’t working, I was going to play, or see bands. But I love the place.

KCT: Yeah, I’m in a similar place.

JR: You work there?

KCT: Sort of. I do sound sometimes. I’m earning my stripes - it’s been an interesting beginning.

AC: And people are sexist - they’ll be like “I don’t want a female sound person.”

KCT: I often get “so you’re the sound man?”

JR: I feel like in Chicago there were way less women performers than here. I don’t know.

AC: I’ve noticed that too.

KCT: It probably has to do with Miami being such a whirlwind of a place. People are just like “Well, if everyone’s so crazy, I’m just going to do my shit too,” but still people say stupid, sexist things.

JR: When you guys tour, you were saying that you guys do the noise circuit. How’d you get looped into that?

KCT & AC in unision: Rat.

AC: He was like “You want to go on tour?” and we said sure, but the only shows he’s going to book are noise shows with people he knows. Usually when he goes to a city, he already knows where he’s going and who he’s going to play with.

KCT: I was supposed to go on tour with him doing my solo noise project, but then I just said fuck it, let’s do Snakehole instead.

JR: So do you guys play the same kind of set that I’ve seen here?

KCT: Yeah, but we’ll mix in different songs every once in a while.

AC: The first time I went on tour was with Scraping Teeth, which was Rat, and Gavin and Betty from Holly Hunt. It was improvised noise rock every night. When I went with Rat a second time, I played noise guitar with him. Then we went as Snakehole with Rat in December and Sylvia Castel.

JR: What kind of music is she?

AC: She’s electronic from Italy.

KCT: She does a lot of sampling and looping. She’ll say something, sample and loop it, bring out a kazoo, loop that. She also does a lot of sexy dancing.

AC: She’s definitely a babe. This time we went to Austin we played as Snakehole, but we also squelched with Rat afterwards.

KCT: I fucked up my finger squelching.

JR: What do you mean squelching?

AC: It’s what you call it when you play with Rat. He goes by “Laundryroom Squelchers.” Sometimes it’s that and sometimes it’s “Rat Bastard.” Squelching is just like throwing things at the audience, running around, rolling on the floor, literally doing whatever you want. You could just stand there if you wanted to.

KCT: When I started squelching, I just lifted up my floor tom and started yelling in it. The less you think, the better.

JR: So Snakehole was originally a three-piece? How has the lineup changed?

KCT: Well, our bassist became a mom, so we understand. We miss her, but we can’t stop Snakehole. 

AC: She couldn’t go on tour with us, so we had our friend Bootsie [Castillo] fill in for the first tour. Bootsie couldn’t go this tour so we just did it ourselves. We have ambition and have to keep going, but it’s hard to find someone that can run alongside. For us, we just want to practice too, which is easier since we live together.

KCT: There’s been times where I’ll come home, it’s three in the morning, and I'll knock on Autumn’s door and just be like “let’s practice.” We try to play together every day.

AC: We’ve started to get psychically connected. She’ll throw a drumstick and I’ll pick it up and throw it back at her without stopping.

KCT: We can only pull that off when we’re here, though. (laughs).

AC: It’s like when you have sex with somebody a lot. The more you do it, the better you get. It becomes more natural.

KCT: Every time I play music, I feel like I’m orgasming or something. It’s definitely like fucking at times. I guess that means I’ve fucked a lot of people…musically.

JR: Yeah…um…(laughs)…I guess I’m not that prolific of a fuck, then? I've only jammed with people a couple times. I've never been able to get things focused since I was traveling for my last job and here I’ve just been working a lot of hours. The one good thing about running a blog is that you can sort of do it anywhere as long as you have something to record, and you're not reliant on people. So you guys also have a bunch of tapes?

AC: Yes, but we have two that are distributed by a label.

KCT: The first one was with Kill/Hurt and there was one we didn’t put out - we just recorded it with Rat, but never did anything. This third one we recorded with Jesus and we put it out with No Work Records. Then we just have weird shit that we recorded on my tape player that we'll put out for just like a show.

AC: We also recorded a demo to send to Trip just being like “Hey, this is kind of what it’s going to sound like. Are you still interested?” And he was like “Hell yeah!” We only made six of those so we put our demo on six tapes and we took those when we went to Austin and just gave them away to six lucky people (laughs).

KCT: Yeah.

JR: Did you guys play Suxby?

AC: Yeah, we played with Rat that night, not as Snakehole, but we played a house show on a porch that was about to get demolished because of the whole gentrification process.

JR: Yeah I just interviewed this woman who used to live there who moved to Providence, RI and she wanted to move back to Austin but couldn’t because it had gentrified so much - she couldn’t afford it. Also, she said there was nowhere she’d want to live.

AC: It’s a natural constant cycle. The festival started there and it used to be awesome and then the greedy music industry comes in to take down the scene that made it.

JR: So did you guys play the actual South by Southwest part of it?

KCT: Just that house show, but Rat wanted to go check out some stuff he said was “classic shit.” So we had to go see it.

AC: When you go to Southby you can buy tickets, but you can also just be in Austin and not pay for anything and see what you want. You walk around and can probably see any band you want at least once or twice.

KCT: We also went to New Orleans and played there, which was so cool. It was my first time and it was fun.

JR: I haven’t been there. I actually haven't been to many places in the South - I haven’t been to Texas, Alabama, or Louisiana.

AC: Have you been to Gainesville?

JR: No I have not.

AC: Gainesville’s pretty cool. Our friends have a space there called “A Space,” which just started this past year but now they have to move. It’s like every time a space pops up, it’s usually got about a year.

JR: Are there many DIY spaces in Miami?

AC: Last year I was doing running one called “Space Mountain.” We were doing art and music shows there, but it only lasted about a year. We do some shows here [at their house]. We’re going to start doing a little more, but it’s rough. People come over and trash the place and then leave. Then we’re left cleaning the mess. It's weird too because you don’t want to charge money - it’s your house. You want to just be like “Yeah! Cool! Freedom! Shows! Love!” but then people come over and fuck shit up to be rowdy.

JR: Well, it means a lot that you guys let me over - your place is really cool. So you guys do everything in this [music] room? Demos and stuff?

AC: Well, we record for ourselves here on our cellphones, but we usually just go to Rat’s house on the beach. He’s got a studio in his house. You should come over some time.

KCT: We jam there a lot.

AC: Rat let us stay in his house for two weeks last time he went out of town. It was like heaven. His apartment is insane. It’s like every square inch has a musical instrument or music memorabilia and it’s a one bedroom apartment.

JR: So who does the lyrics?

AC: We’ve become more of a joint effort now, which is cool. In the past it was just me, but now since the energies have shifted to the two of us, it’s become a more direct conversation.

KCT: It’s like when you jam and have two instruments - they’re talking to each other. I try not to think about it too much - my lyrics are really short because that’s just my preferred musical communication.

AC: I’ll write what I want to sing and she’ll write what she wants to sing basically. It’s not like “I came up with this part for you.” When we’re singing at the same time then we’ll do it more together.

JR: I didn’t really even think about it like that. Like telling someone else what to say.

AC: You’ll hear bands say “the drummer wrote this song” and like, why doesn’t the drummer sing it then? I feel like you connect more to what you’re singing if it came from your own heart or mind.

KCT: Sometimes when I play music people will tell me “Do this” and like, I’m not just a human metronome. The other day I made a rhythm in my head and I played it to Autumn just to see what she would do. I can’t wait to record it.

JR: That would be for the Wharf Cat record?

KCT: Yeah. At the same time, if we don’t see each other for a couple days since we’re so busy and on our own, when we do see each other, we’ll get together and be inspired by each other.

AC: Everything’s one montage. The newer stuff is getting so weird, structurally, and with the beats. It sounds like it’s from Egypt or something.

JR: You guys have gotten progressively heavier, right?

AC: In the very beginning, it was more pop-punk or surfy. Then we took a hiatus, which is when we all three went through some shit. Julie had a baby and we both had some pretty terrible relationships. The darkness definitely started to take over a bit. Since Julie left, we’ve had less structure without a bass player.

KCT: It was like being in Nirvana if the band had broken up but Kurt Cobain was alive when we weren’t playing and all I could think was “I’m an asshole!” (laughs). This should be happening! Nirvana's inspiring. They’re so cool and heartfelt. That’s why I thought of that. It was like if Dave Grohl had Kurt Cobain here right now, what would he be doing, huh? (laughs)

Interview with Joshua Touchton of Virgin Flower

There's this distinct moment from Joshua Touchton's International Noise Conference set as Virgin Flower where he bares his teeth and hisses in air. Is it a smile or a grimace? Does this gesture come from a place of exaltation and affirmation or pain and oppression? It's memorable because that idea of illusory context is an important one, not just to performance, but to our identities. Sure, a person mixes sounds together, but there's more to it. What lays the bedding of the mind that makes the sounds? Who watches the watchmen, dig?

I often don't get the answers, but one of the great joys of doing interviews with artists I respect and sometimes admire is getting glimpses of it. This is one such instance. I'm a bit honored to have gotten such an open response from Joshua about the darkness in his life surrounding his more recent output, including the excellent Absence of Essence on the consistently great PopNihil label, a swampy mix of beats, electronic samples, and distorted vocals, languishing somewhere between Suicide and Dr. Octagon.

The new tape is as much a reflection of Joshua's haunted past as it is his looking forward. Rather than stay trapped, Joshua casts out his darkness. The listener becomes witness. Does he or she empathize or dance along? Perhaps the two are not mutually exclusive.

Jordan Reyes: So tell me a little bit about the tape you just put out on PopNihil. That is your first tape, right?

Joshua Touchton: No, there was a tape I put out about two years ago on a Jacksonville label called Rainbow Pyramid. It was a split with my brother John in his previous band. She does the Mouth Mouth thing now. There were called Ascetic. We did a Virgin Flower/Ascetic split. This new release on PopNihil is, I don’t want to say more intimate, but it means a lot more to me.

JR: Why does it mean more?

JT: It’s all sample-based - I use a sampler, but the new samples were made from scratch. I use a drum machine and a synthesizer. The old samples were with a Synthesizer, an oscillator, and obscure tape samples. I feel like I found my niche now. I feel comfortable. I’ve developed a consistent sound. Since that tape, I’ve actually written a couple more songs and they’ve got a similar sound and feeling. So I’ve gotten out of that last phase and begun to do what I’ve always wanted to do by myself. I feel like the new Virgin Flower tape is an extension of a band my brother and I used to be in, which was a heavy noise rock n’ roll band. I played drums and he played guitar and synth. Where we left off, I picked up. It’s noise punk rock by one man.

JT: I like the previous tape a lot too, though. That’s why I kept the name. It’s out there on the internet. Actually, I also did a split with Baby Ghost on PopNihil so there was another previous Virgin Flower PopNihil release that had two songs of mine on it. It’s a really short split - about twelve or fourteen minutes altogether.

JR: Have you known Matthew for a long time?

JT: Yeah, I’ve known him since 2012 I believe. We’re going on three years of knowing each other.

JR: Are you and your brother John [editor’s note: John Touchton from Severed + Said] close? Do you guys get to bounce ideas off each other?

JT: Yeah, well, outside of being my brother, John’s my best friend. He’s definitely someone that I’m influenced by greatly. We live and work together and have made music for a long time. I actually just bought some drum sticks today and we played music for the first time in a long time. We’ll play electronic stuff together too. But in terms of bouncing ideas, totally. I ask him questions and he asks me questions. I would say we’re both inspired by each other, though I can obviously only speak for myself.

JT: Beyond an artistic level, on a personal level, I think he’s a really good person. I like what he does. I think he’s smart.

JR: I really enjoy talking to him too. I met him at Sweat the night after you played and we ended up talking about Philip K. Dick for like half an hour. It was awesome.

JT: He’s a smart dude and I’m inspired by the way he lives. He lives a very balanced life, I’d say. He’s helped me when I’ve been in fucked up places. There’s a couple people who have helped me through some crazy shit. I’m glad to have had that come around. I can’t imagine what my life would be like if we hadn’t grown up together or what his would be like.

JR: So what was your first encounter with experimental, darker, noisier music?

JT: I’d say when I was about fifteen I saw and met these dudes Chris Spohn and Logan Owlbeemoth. They would do Telepathic Friend and Friendless Outsider. Logan has gone to form Os Ovni. I don’t keep in contact with either of those dudes anymore. So that was in 2005 to answer your question. A lot of the older noise, experimental dudes I got into are either totally burnt out or very competitive and afraid of other creative outlets, afraid of other people having success. A lot of the noise dudes are really fucking strange, man. They’re burnt out or isolated or weird internet dudes.

JT: So in 2005, I saw some more experimental projects at this place The Pit in Jacksonville. There were two pits. One was an outside DIY space and a lot of good bands came through there. Thank God came through there. Upside Down Cross. Wolf Dick. Super Pizza Party. Telepathic Friend.

JT: Before that, I was into punk music, but I found out about Suicide when I was about thirteen. I remember seeing “Dream, Baby, Dream” and thinking “this is fucked up.” Seeing that, I recognized it as something that I related to that wasn’t full-on punk rock. Ultimately I feel like that stuff affects the way I make music. I sound like some mix of electronic punk and I’m really excited that I have people like Matthew and John to encourage me to do what I’ve been doing.

JT: Jacksonville is a weird place to play experimental shows at. I don’t play out that much because it’s not worth it sometimes. I like going out of town to play.

JR: That’s what I was going to ask next, like, how is Jacksonville for an artist like you?

JT: It’s great in the sense that there are a lot of creators here doing experimental stuff. Matthew, John, and a couple other people are a steady foundation for that. But the people who go to shows here seem to be less concerned with the cultural aspect. They’ll just go out with no intention to hear music. There’s a lot of that. That’s okay. That’s better than no one being there, but I feel like most of what’s going on here isn’t thought of the same way that I think of it. But I believe in what we’re doing and I believe in Jacksonville. I love Jacksonville, though. I would move if I weren’t happy here.

JT: There’s exchange too. There’s a lot of hardcore here, but maybe that’s everywhere. There’s a lack of punk rock, though. There’s not a lack of experimental stuff, but there’s not that much support. At the same time, you have people like Matthew who’s doing something special. He’s the dude and his fucking label has put out so many releases in two years.

JR: I can’t believe how much he’s done.

JT: He’s an impressive dude as far as that goes. I think Jacksonville is on its way up. I think people are going to recognize what’s going on here. Maybe not, but we’d all be doing stuff even without the recognition. John just got that release on Not Not Fun for Severed + Said too. That’s a really big deal. I’m really proud and happy for him. 

JR: That’s massive. I guess he’s doing a East Coast tour soon too.

JT: I think Matthew’s going with him. I don’t know if he’s going to play any shows, but I know he’s going with John. That’s good news for anyone who releases a tape with Matthew - he’s going to go out of his way to help people on his label.

JR: Have you gotten much response for the tape?

JT: To be honest, not yet. There’s a lot of people I personally know who gave me some. I couldn’t be happier, but I don’t think too many people have bought the tape at this point - I don’t think it’s sold out. I’m kind of happy, though. I don’t want a bunch of locals owning it. I don’t want to waste copies on people that I already know or something. I’m keeping all of my copies - I mean, I’ve given it to a few important people. I told most of my friends who want it to either order from Matthew or listen to it on the internet. It’s really special to me.

JT: So this is the most response I’ve gotten - from you and some dudes from Orlando who have asked Matthew to book me there. Like I said, I’m releasing music for response, but whether or not I get any sort of response doesn’t keep me from doing what I’m doing. I don’t do music to be popular or to get credited. I like people hearing it. I want people to, but I think it’s more of an outlet or a therapy than anything. It’s my journal. It’s my exegesis (laughs).

JR: A lot of your vocals are pretty distorted on the tape. What are you talking about?

JT: Most of it is about self-obsession, negative desires, drug addiction. My last few years were very intense. I stopped making music for a while. I put a lid on some things and started doing music again. All the music I’ve made since then has been about the last two years of my self-obsession, physical and psychological abuse, self-destruction. I mean - it was just a really rough couple of years. There’s a lot about hard drugs, being alone, and being happy with everything I was doing, living only for my desires, and being okay with that. Now I’m not. I’m still sick in a lot of ways, but not in the way I was. There’s no hard drugs now besides alcohol.

JT: That description sounds dark, but to me what’s truly dark is poppy music with the same concept. At least when you put on headphones and listen you know it’s dark. There’s no subliminal message. It’s obvious by the packaging and style of music. It’s still poppy in a way. There’s still a beat to it.

JR: I think a lot of pop music isn’t just dark but it tells people to embrace a lifestyle prepared to make you an unhappy person.

JT: Definitely. That’s what I’m saying. I had this conversation with a dude Genre Baptiste. His shit’s really catchy and amazing. I love it. I saw him in St. Augustine and got to meet him so I told him “Wow, that was great. It was really dark.” And he said “No, it’s not dark. It’s poppy.” And I was like “Yeah, it’s poppy and catchy but your subject matter has so much discontent that I can relate to.” I felt like he slipped it in and covered it up behind a poppy song. So, yeah, I completely agree with you. All these songs on the radio that are scientifically going to make you dance, where there’s no way you can hate the chord progression, has a message that’s “Get drunk and fuck. Get fucked up and fuck.” To me, that’s way more dark than what I’m doing. My shit’s obvious. It’s obviously about an outlet for the dark sides of myself.

JR: It’s sort of like, this is maybe a weird way to put it, it’s what the devil from Christianity would do. It’s that sick-smelling honey that brings you close and ends up making you ill.

JT: That’s a good way to put it. It takes the negative things that you’re told not to do or be careful in doing and making them appealing. To me, that’s the darkest shit ever. I covered a Backstreet Boys song a couple years ago. My intention was to show how to how that culture is a distraction and negative for girls, urban girls, or whatever. It’s telling you to go to a mall and get a dress and new jeans. It takes all the industries of the world and tries to destroy culture. Any threatening culture out there they try to neutralize as quickly as possible.

JT: Pop music is down to a science. The frequencies and chord progressions are things you can’t dislike. Underneath that is an undertone of darkness that, if you thought was the secret answer, would cause you to hate your life and potentially die from being too intoxicated or getting an STD.

JR: But it also make you consume. It makes you buy. You begin thinking “I could do the same thing as these guys if I buy the right car or if I look the right way.” And everyone is in on it together and it’s totally terrifying.

JT: You’re right. And it’s terrifying that sometimes the jobs we have, which we need to live, leaves us with a certain amount of money that we don’t spend on bills. I know that I’ll be bored and go spend money that I have on something, or go out to eat. Buying something because I’m unhappy or have an impulse. They got to me. I like to think of myself as being on a minimal level of that idea, but we’re all stuck in this cycle of work, which gives you extra money and you have two days off on the weekend - what are you going to do? Will you spend it on drinking or buying shit? They’ve got me where they want me.

JT: But I also don’t have a car. I like to think of myself as being on a lesser level, but I like to buy cigarettes or alcohol. I don’t buy any drugs that come from gas or have blood on them. Being a consumer is a real thing, and it’s been going on since we were children, or even infants. They’ve been trying to get us and they did. It’ll be okay (laughs).

Interview with Lamont Thomas of Obnox

We're five months into 2015 and Lamont Thomas has put out two full-length records as Obnox - Boogalou Reed on 12XU Records and Know America on Ever/Never Records and guess what - they're both good as fuck. While many bands are complacent with putting out a new album every year or every other year, Lamont is already prepping his third album of 2015 called Wiggling in a Cannon on Ever/Never, not to mention being featured on the upcoming ONO record Spooks. Let's face the facts - Thomas' output has exceeded any standard measure of prolificacy. Now he's just showing off, and we're all gloriously better off because of it.

Lamont's been making music for more than twenty years, having been a part of bands like Bassholes, Puffy Areolas, and This Moment in Black History, but his solo project Obnox just released its fifteenth record in its relatively short four-year lifespan. Obnox is a master study in chimeric music, weaving in noise, punk, soul, hip hop, blues, and rock n' roll, the result of a roving, curious mind. I can't help but think that a less-driven artist would be tired, but Lamont, ever the anomaly, seems to be revving up for DeathRace 2015.

I got a chance to catch up with him after he landed in Austin, TX to play with Barbara Lynn and debut his band Blaxxx with Orville Neeley and Tom Triplett of OBN III's to discuss his work ethic, the state of the music industry in 2015, and cowboy hats.

Jordan Reyes: What brings you to Austin?

Lamont Thomas: I got flown down for a couple shows with Barbara Lynn. She did soul-influenced rock, and in the sixties the Rolling Stones covered her. So she’s in the books for sure. Now they’re reissuing her catalog from Atlantic. I’m privileged to play with her. Her voice sounds better than anyone on the radio right now. I don’t know how she’s maintained that level all this time, but it’s a gift.

JR: How old is she?

LT: Man, that’s a good question. I don’t know exactly. She’s definitely in her sixties. I’m playing with this other Bricktop Blues band with Randall from Beerland. He’s an amazing harp player who’s been playing for ten years and I’ve only known him for eight years.

JR: You’re playing a Blaxxx show tonight too, right?

LT: Yes sir. It’s kind of our debut. We were supposed to do our first show at the Atlanta Mess Around next weekend, but I got the opportunity to come down here, rehearse, and possibly make some stuff for a follow up. But yeah, we’re playing tonight now.

JR: How’d you link up with the guys from OBN III’s for that project?

LT: We’d been palling around the last few Southby’s and they suggested that we jam when I was in town. They played in Cleveland and crashed with me. We jammed when we had time off at Southby. I ended up just going over there during the last few hours I was in town and we made the record.

JR: I actually started my blog three years ago because I loved their first record and wanted to know what was next. I thought they wouldn’t answer me unless I had a good excuse so I made this blog to find out.

LT: Damn! So that was the jump off?

JR: (laughs) Yeah. It’s so funny. I totally could have asked them, but I somehow felt the need to make this elaborate backstory.

LT: Yeah, but it’s still pumping too. So do you have the Blaxxx record?

JR: Yeah, I do. I got it probably two or three weeks ago. I bought that and a couple of the Obnox 12”s I didn’t have from somewhere in Cleveland. I can’t remember exactly.

LT: You’re still doing the label [Moniker Records]?

JR: Yeah, I just started working with Robert. We’re mostly operated out of Chicago even though I just moved to Miami. I’m still fresh to it, though, so there’s a lot I need to learn.

LT: I got it. Robert’s a good dude. ONO and I crashed over at his place. I had a couple shows there. When I was last down there, I went over to Electrical Audio to do some tracks with them.

JR: How did you guys get together?

LT: ONO and Puffy Areolas had played shows together and when I started doing Obnox, they were supportive immediately. The Owl put them on a bill with me on one of those Sunday night things. They came out to Cleveland not long after. So when I was out on tour, I stopped over at Electrical Audio. Wild troop, man. Tons of talent in that room. P. Michael is a genius, but it’s really about the tribe. And Travis, of course, shit. (laughs).

JR: He’s a trip.

LT: Smart dude. Having been down with the Cleveland punk scene in the 70s, we were kind of drawn to each other. Just seeing what they were able to do with the Chicago punk and weirdo scene is incredible. They were the blueprint. I’m glad they’re getting reissued too.

JR: So you’re originally from Cleveland, then?

LT: I grew up in Sandusky, Ohio about an hour away. I went to college in Bowling Green and then I was out in Philly for a bit. I came back to Ohio in Columbus for about five years. I ended up in Cleveland, which is where I’ve been for the last fifteen years. It’s affordable. I can get to a lot of cities within eight hours and it’s a good central location for touring if I’m going to the South or the East Coast. The West Coast I have to plan out, but I also can do a lot of weekend things here and there.

JR: And you’ve been making music for twenty-odd years?

LT: Yeah. One of the first records I was on was in ’95.

JR: Do you think much has changed in terms of who’s making punk music since then?

LT: Well, there’s plenty of great stuff out there. Many people my age will say “it’s not the same,” but there’s always been people trying to suck on the industry’s tit and now they’re kind of on their end trying to figure out ways to take back the internet or better use technology. Some star is saying, “Shit, I’m only going to make six million this year. I’m used to making twenty-five-fucking-million a year. This is bullshit.” (laughs). But the game has changed. The fans got older and the technology has changed with your generation - it’s taking twenty-five years to get their dollars back with Beats and Jimmy Iovine and Neil Young who’s promising better quality mp3’s. At some point you have to sit back and realize that, no, you guys just want to get paid! Nobody had a platinum rap record last year. That’s fucking unheard of. It’s one of the biggest cash cows in the game.

LT: Part of it is what they’re selling, too. Part of it is having to treat your customers right. They were making a product for less than a dollar and selling that shit for fifteen or sixteen dollars for years, which eliminated all other formats. It is what it is. They’re not exactly selling the best shit in America. Like there’s better stuff so why not just put out quality products? It’s for fans. It’s the same thing now. People are doing the numbers that the fans indicate. There’s a lot of file-sharing going on and free downloads and streaming, but ultimately that gets the word out for shows. The quick, instant listen is a new phenomenon. It’s not like back in the day where you’d have to get a 7”. People are doing great things now that they couldn’t have done in the old system. Shit, I’m happy. I’m having more fun than ever and it’s partially because of that.

JR: How do you feel about the reaction to your music?

LT: Well, as long as no one says it’s “punk rap.” (laughs). Those are just two words that shouldn’t really intermingle. There are rappers saying “I don’t want to be no punk” and I don’t want to be responsible for that. Let’s just put it that way. I do what I want. People seem to respect that and they seem to respect me. People know I’m into everything. I’m listening to Glen Campbell and I’ll put on LL after that and then the new Lump & the Dumpers single right after that. That’s how I carry it in the studio too. I’ll do a punk song and then I’ll do a love song. You can barely even get a punk-rocker to say the “L-word” anymore.

LT: It’s like, well, motherfucker, you got a mom. Somebody somewhere told you they loved you. You had your heart broken. Tell the truth. You ain’t hard. You ain’t fresh. And you ain’t raw. The raw motherfuckers can articulate that shit, which ends up making a dope song, or a good listen. You crack the gatefold open, load up the reefer, sit back and listen for half a day just flipping back and forth.

JR: I agree with you. I think diversity’s is something people are afraid of it. I think labels are afraid of it. I think artists are afraid of it. Sometimes I even think listeners are afraid of it, putting themselves in niches.

LT: Yeah, and it’s cool anyway you want it. Some people are comfortable only hanging out with church folk. Some people only hang out with crust punks. Some people are stone cold egghead indie-rock shoegaze motherfuckers. To each his own. I like to pack my shit with a little something for everybody. If you’re coming in, you can check it for the noise or check it for the beats or check it for the punk songs or pop songs, and you might turn on to some other shit and end up going off on some completely new trajectory. That’s music. That’s life. That’s learning. That’s what’s up. 

LT: Man, I can’t find my fucking joint. I just rolled it. Oh, there it is. (laughs). It’s really funky down here, you know?

JR: Yeah. I’ve never been to Texas, but I wear a cowboy hat all the time so people think I’m from there.

LT: (laughs) Oh man, I love wearing a cowboy hat through Austin. People are like “What in the hell? He ain’t from around here.” They can just tell. I’m just trying to enjoy how they get it down here. I’m going to fuck around and buy some boots one of these trips. The last time I saw Arthur Lee alive, he had on this Western shirt with fringe, some black denim, some black boots, a cowboy hat, and also a doo-rag, and some Locs sunglasses. I was like “This is the real singing cowboy. This is my fucking hero right here.” Talk about Black punk. Locs, doo-rag, Western wear? Rest in Peace, Arthur Lee.

JR: He’s a total idol for me.

LT: That reminds me of the business shit. You have Jim Morrison ripping off Arthur Lee and Lou Reed. And then it takes several decades for people to realize how heavy Lou Reed and Arthur Lee were. In the meantime, Morrison’s hammered and he fucking croaks. It’s like what the? That’s not fair. But Lou Reed and Arthur Lee also didn’t like to tour that much. It’s a workman’s issue. That’s the punk blueprint.

JR: So talking about diversity, the last track on your most recent LP Know America has an emcee on it. Is that you who’s rapping?

LT: No, that’s my homeboy Josiah Quarles who goes by Zion. He’s the emcee of the Muamin collective. Ultimately that’s the idea to kick in the door and throw on Muamin, which keeps the beats and samples, but has rock to it. Aaron "aLive" Snorton from Muamin does a lot of the beatmaking and mixing on the Nox records. It’s kind of like a feature.

JR: That’s a great record by the way. I like the concept of taking over a radio station. It’s like a pure way to put your idea of good music into someone else’s.

LT: My friend was telling me that no one really listens to the radio anymore. I didn’t really think about that while I was making the record. It’s just classic radio, a little bit of a throwback.

JR: I’ll be honest, I don’t remember the last time I listened to the radio. Maybe that’s cause I’m cynical and don’t know where to look.

LT: Yeah, but there’s a lot of options - podcasts and the music you hear from blogs. That shit’s vast. People are just turned onto music differently nowadays. Radio’s more of a commercial space now than it was in the past.

JR: You also chose the AM frequency. Why’s that?

LT: (laughs) Well, it’s like a wake and bake. You know? AM - WEDE. Little weed reference. 420 AM. Stoner bullshit really. There’s a radio station in my hometown of Sandusky, which is 1450 AM WLEC. I still listen to that when I get home. It wasn’t like groundbreaking punk radio, but it was solid programming. So I guess I’m taking it back to the beginning.

LT: Recording it at home, we were just dicking around. And I was like, “yeah, let’s call up the news and have them back us up on this.” Let’s get the thirteen year old kid Cullen O'Connor on the phone to cut organ. That’s what happens - Know America. I also think of Sue Harshe from Scrawl. Her punk band before they started Scrawl was called No America, so I’ve also morphed that a bit. It’s a snapshot of different shit you might hear from around here. A little bit of everything. It’s all together.

JR: I’ve had this running query in my mind, which is how hard is it nowadays to make a living being a full-time musician. Are you able to do that?

LT: Well, I don’t know. It’s always been an overgrown hobby or a labor of love. I’ve recently gotten some opportunities where I may be able to make a little more money than I had in the past. So I can make money from it, but a living? You probably have to do a deal where you wake up every day and consider what your role is as an artist. You’ve got to do interviews and promo tours and all the stuff that the big businesses do to sell their music. Those are the types of people making a living at it.

LT: Then you’ve got people who are just hard-working musicians, always on the road. We don’t know if they’re twice divorced and recovering alcoholics because of it, but they’ve got a great show and it’s worth going to see them. You’ve got to tour a lot because it’s all about the show. The record business in the big leagues is all fucked up so the independents are feeling it too. But it’s getting back to where it was in the past where there’s a lot of good regional activity. People are linked up as fans of one another. It’s not this big overgrown world takeover like Lady Gaga and Drake. I’m not involved in that world. If I were to make a living doing this, it would be keeping a nice internet profile, selling t-shirts, selling records, and traveling, but then I can’t be with my daughter all the time and my woman’s not happy. You have to balance it out.

LT: Historically, clubs tend to punk bands around when it comes to the money and no one’s calling anybody on their bullshit, but the clubs are there year after year and the people are breaking up their bands and starting new shit. And it’s like, hold up, you had a great band, but somebody had to punch a clock or somebody had to raise a child, and the money for your music wasn’t coming in like it should. A rapper will kill you for his money. So why are these fucking rock n’ rollers afraid to confront a club promoter, or some motherfucker who won’t pay for the record or downloads he’s selling year after year? Maybe if the powers that be were a little more fair about their accounting, and if artists were a little more realistic about what they could sell and what they’re worth, and people had better shows, the interest and sales would justify the yearly income. But it takes a lot of time and some damn good music.

JR: I read one of your interviews where you said that even though you get critical acclaim year after year, and I see it, you end up lingering in more obscurity. How do you see it?

LT: Well, I mean, famous people turn up dead, man. I don’t want that. I’m not like “why am I not making it? Why don’t people care?” The people that are getting the music appreciate it and that’s good enough for me. If more people were to follow suit, then hell yeah, I’m down. I’m not here for the ego glow, but more for the word getting out there. It’s like art, man, like a painting at a museum. It’s a good thing. It shouldn’t be a bad thing when someone becomes popular if they’re doing the same thing they’ve done. So what? There are a couple douchebags in the crowd in baseball caps and Birkenstocks. Maybe over time he’s gonna lace up his chucks or slip on some Vans, puff down, and try to get some pussy. Hell yeah, that’s a rite of passage in rock n’ roll.

LT: Look, I listened to junk records back in the day, and then all of a sudden you hear something and your palette changes, your taste changes, and your ideas change. Some people aren’t up for that. I’m not covering this crap. So what, big deal he’s got fourteen records out - that’s too much. Like, what do you mean? That’s newsworthy if you ask me, but I’m not in it for that. As long as people are catching the records, spreading the word, turning it up, puffing down, and partying to it or hell, get naked and get in the sack. I don’t want to think about that, but I hope that’s going down.

JR: (Laughs) That’s funny.

LT: It’s a deep game, man! It’s about music and nine times out of ten there’s a dude who can’t play and doesn’t give a shit about music who’s trying to set the agenda for the game and that doesn’t work. The fans own it now. The dopest musicians are the ones on top now. You trying to get a deal? You trying to get off on a trend? You look like a fucking alien. I think of those dudes with a ton of laminates at Southby and it’s like “Dude, you look like a fucking alien! You look weird. You look like you hurt somebody.” It’s like, “I’ll talk to you if you can respect my music and you have some money, yeah I’ll talk to you, but we can’t get in bed unless we have trust.” Sometimes you have to decide what’s up, but hey, who knows? Maybe he’s going to throw his laminates in the fire, come to Nox, buy the records, and start playing punk tomorrow. It’s music. It’s a language. We speak it one way or another.

JR: I heard you’re working on even more records that might be coming out this year.

LT: Yeah, I’m working on a record called Wiglet in the can that’s going to come out on Ever/Never in the fall. I’m also working on something that will hopefully get cut in the Spring of next year. It’s expansive - it might even be a double. Nobody’s happy about me doing a double album because it costs a lot of money, but to have it all together in one package is my goal. I’m trying to make it good enough where whoever decides to put it out is undeniably behind the project. It’s tentatively titled Skywalker OG. It’s me working with a bunch of guys from Cleveland who make beats, but ultimately using that shit to make a punk record. Who says you can’t use a drum machine and make a punk record? Why does it have to be equated to rap? I don’t have to worry about what rappers have to worry about. They have to worry about being fresh and networking, which takes your mind off music, but I love the NPC. I love the beats mixing with the band. And yeah, I like playing distorted-ass guitar over it. But Rick Rubin was doing that same shit.

JR: Yeah, Jay-Z’s The Black Album sounds kind of like that.

LT: Yeah, I think he’s ripping me off. Nah, I’m fucking with you.